Oil weight and pressure relation

[PapaBear]

Guys, time to be serious lol. Here's the backstory:

I've always run 10w30 Mobil 1 in this new motor, and always have seen above 25psi oil pressure at hot idle. New cam went in with a GM performance parts oil pump and 5w30 mobil 1, and initially saw about 30-35 psi at hot idle. I drove truck back from NC and all has been well.

This morning, while on the way to work at a stop light, I saw it dip as low as 12 psi at ~800 RPM idle, but it picked right back up. Book says ~10psi per 1000 RPMs is good, but I know it should be higher with this pump.

Is it possible for an oil pump that's brand new to fail this quickly? I would have to rule out the O-ring in the pickup tube based on the initial numbers, so don't know where to point other than the pump or the oil weight.

Any suggestions? Switch to 10w30 or 10w40 and see what happens? Or proceed to tear it apart and go with a different pump? Usually this pump performs on par with Melling blueprinted pump, which is the reason I went with it due to wait time on the Melling I initially wanted.

[BigdaddyDupree]

12 PSI seems real low honestly. my junkyard 5.3 has never been lower then 35 at hot idle. Melling is a good pump but i can get you a GM pump probably pretty reasonable. maybe try a mechanical gauge

[PapaBear]

I have a stock pump with about 7k miles on it I could try, but I am really hoping to not have to tear it apart. Would going from 10w30 to 5w30 make that much of a difference?

Should I try a heavier weight oil just to see or would it be a bandaid basically?

By the way I am reading pressures on an aeroforce scan gauge plugged into OBD II port. Stock gauge of course reads 30 or higher all the damn time.

[jmd]

how long did it stay at 12 psi?
what psi is it doing now?
money is on the o ring.

[silver455]

i had a lt1 that would hot idle 20 psi with 5w30 and 25 psi with 10w30....doesn't hurt to try

[slowgreen99]

get some 20w-50. Just see if it changes a lot.

[PapaBear]

how long did it stay at 12 psi?
what psi is it doing now?
money is on the o ring.

It stayed at 12 for maybe 2 seconds, then picked up to 15 and then i left the light. Got to work and it idled at about 17-20.

It ran at 30-35 hot idle at the beginning of the week. Doubt the O-ring can change it's orientation in 4 days.

i had a lt1 that would hot idle 20 psi with 5w30 and 25 psi with 10w30....doesn't hurt to try

Worth a try before tearing into the front of the engine i guess. Would also give me a chance to cut the filter and take a gander at what's inside.

[ForceFed4g63]

get some 20w-50. Just see if it changes a lot.

X2

Also, the sending unit might be bad, might want to switch it out.

[BAD BOB]

The thing with these motors is you run the oil that they call for for the most part. A new gm engine should run 5w30 bc that's what the tolerances are made for. I think the alum motors will fluctuate more bc of the greater expansion rate over iron

[PapaBear]

Well, I'm going to throw some heavier oil in there and see.

If I have to pull it apart I'll just throw the Melling in there like I wanted to initially.

Any tips for the O-ring other than to lube the shit out of it and install on the tube not in the pump? I have a trick for removing and installing the bolt, hope it works. If I have to remove diff to pull the pan, this bitch is going 2wd.

[jmd]

X2

Also, the sending unit might be bad, might want to switch it out.

this is a good idea.

[PapaBear]

X2

Also, the sending unit might be bad, might want to switch it out.

I questioned this as well. Might as well replace it, could easily be a piece of trash or something in there. That might explain my high RPM low pressure readings.

Thanks guys.

[jmd]

I questioned this as well. Might as well replace it, could easily be a piece of trash or something in there. That might explain my high RPM low pressure readings. Thanks guys.

it drops pressure on high rpm runs? how low/

[PapaBear]

it drops pressure on high rpm runs? how low/

Doesn't drop, just doesn't build what it used to. Only gets to about 38 or 40

[BigdaddyDupree]

thats not good bud

[BigdaddyDupree]

again my junkyard 5.3 has 65-70 lbs at WOT

[98z-28camaro]

my milling never sees under 60 when hot......i run mobile 15w50 though......

[PapaBear]

I know. That's why I'm blaming the pump. Wonder if it is missing a shim on the spring. I think that's the only difference in this one and the stock one.

[gearmesh, inc.]

Pump gears are pretty basic. If clearances are in spec, pressure problems won't be a gear/pocket issue. I think you either have a sending unit issue, a relief not up to par, or a suction side issue.

Powerstrokes back in the day had an issue with a suction side seal. Ford recommended overfilling the pan to the point of getting the level above the suction seal just as a diagnostic to see if problems went away. You might can do this with the rear end jacked way up to get the oil level higher in the front of the pan, too.

[schardbody]

Don't run thicker oil to band aid a pressure problem. Thicker oil will read higher pressure only because of the restriction to flow which means less oil moving through the bearings which means more heat.

I'm with Gerald sounds like a relief issue. Suction side would usually show low pressure when cold since the oil is thicker the pump will pick up more air than oil... not always though.

First thing I'd do is talk to Alvin and see what he recommends since he was just in it.

[PapaBear]

Alvin questioned the pump all along, but like I said earlier, acquiring the pump we wanted was going to take a couple of weeks. It is now available and will be installed next week, or as soon as I get it.

Come on with the tags guys. Why the fuck would I go back there for something so simple?

[1998ta__1991rs]

Probably the oring. You said they dont drop the pan to change it so that leaves a lot of room for error.

[PapaBear]

Probably the oring. You said they dont drop the pan to change it so that leaves a lot of room for error.

With 100's of these installs with no issue, and $1000 labor savings, i still come out on top.

"Room for error." Sure. Likelihood of error, slim. But sure, could happen. And if it is, then they will take care of it. And I"ll still have $1000+ in my pocket.

[ShawnBoyMoody]

Denial. It aint just a river in Africa.

[ShawnBoyMoody]

My tag btw.

[PapaBear]

We will all know the truth when I get it apart.

[ForceFed4g63]

Denial. It aint just a river in Africa.

http://files.sharenator.com/Wise_man_say_bad_deeds_bring_disgrace_to_your_fami ry_Meme_Generator-s651x800-91010.jpg

[gearmesh, inc.]

Denial. It aint just a river in Africa.

LMAO! Rep for you sir! That's a funny ass saying!

Just laughing at the saying,... not at you, Papa Bear! Hope you get it figured out.

[BAD BOB]

If I remember correct the oil pump relief is only used during higher rpms bc the pump can't reach the relief pressure at idle or low rpms. If that's the case it's most likely not the pump itself

[gearmesh, inc.]

Thick oil on a cool morning tends to lift most oil pump reliefs, too. Once the oil warms up, the relief just dumps off excess pressure at higher rpm.

[schardbody]

Right GM casting oil pumps tend to have a problem with the relief sticking. Cold oil opens relief and never completely shuts.

Next time its fairly low shut it off for about 3 minutes and recrank, if president is now higher its the relief.

[GreebeanZ28]

I'll give you 500 cash for the truck right now as is.

[ForceFed4g63]

I'll give you 500 cash for the truck right now as is.

600 bob

[Bradleyrj]

Pump gears are pretty basic. If clearances are in spec, pressure problems won't be a gear/pocket issue. I think you either have a sending unit issue, a relief not up to par, or a suction side issue.



This.

[Carlrx7]

Since you paid someone to work on it, if its not right, take it back. i say o-ring as well. might as well put a hp/hv pump in at the same time.

My stock ls2 gets down to 20 with 5w-30, stock oil pump, and feeding twins.

How hot is the oil is key. 225 is good, 300 is hot.

-Carl

[1998ta__1991rs]

I wouldn't reccommend a high volume pump on a tbss. With the way the sump is you could stand a good chance of running the pan dru

[GreebeanZ28]

I'll take a cam bearing for 200 alex. LMAO. That tag is great!

[ShawnBoyMoody]

Lol thats great.

[Carlrx7]

I wouldn't reccommend a high volume pump on a tbss. With the way the sump is you could stand a good chance of running the pan dru

heard about that, just run an extra quart...

[1997b4c]

Lolz thread is full of win. And btw here's some tech discussion. Yo shit is fuuuucked.....

[1998ta__1991rs]

heard about that, just run an extra quart...

That could do as much harm as running it dry

[03SVTCOBRA]

That could do as much harm as running it dry

Thats what i say, why put oil in it?

[blkscls1z]

That could do as much harm as running it dry

Been running an extra quart in mine for years.

[Carlrx7]

That could do as much harm as running it dry

it's mentioned in the corvette manual to add an extra quart when racing, wet sumps of course..

[minytrker]

it's mentioned in the corvette manual to add an extra quart when racing, wet sumps of course..

I was going to post the same thing

[jmd]

when i had the stroker motor i ran an extra quart for the hv pump.

[GreebeanZ28]

601 CASH MONIES for the truck right now. Six hunned one. CASH.

[WWhittle]

I was going to ask if you were sure it had the right amount of oil in it- looks like some others are suggesting that as well.

Another question- you said you saw the pressure drop when you were stopping at a light? Were you braking when you saw the pressure drop or were you sitting at the light?

[PapaBear]

I was going to ask if you were sure it had the right amount of oil in it- looks like some others are suggesting that as well.

Another question- you said you saw the pressure drop when you were stopping at a light? Were you braking when you saw the pressure drop or were you sitting at the light?

I have always run an extra quart, and Alvin as well. I was stopped at the light. Either way, AWD TBSS is a front sump pan, so stopping would send more oil to pickup.

[blueyed tuner]

I would have to say leaking o-ring. I have had alot of problems lately with mechanical assemblies that seal with an o-ring in motors and auto trans. O-rings are a very simple sealing device that work great when they work or they can cause you to go postal. I have seen slight differences in thickness and quality. Recently experienced same problem you are having and changed the oring and problem solved. Upon observation of the removed oring I noticed a slight parting line on the inside and the outside. I thought maybe it was pinching between the pan and block so I went and got some new ones and noticed these were the same way. I then went to a different parts store and bought more. This time these were completely slick. I greased them up and installed. The oil pressure was now 10 psi higher. My conclusion is the little rubber lip on the cheap china made oring was not letting it properly seal. Not completely sure if this is your problem, but it gives you something to check. Hope this helps and good luck.

[PapaBear]

http://img.tapatalk.com/625b1647-5ff0-8cc5.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/625b1647-6021-b876.jpg

O ring is perfect.

[1iron]

Blue not red for tbss?

[PapaBear]

That's the consensus from most. I know the red is a little thicker, but everyone said the blue was the one.

[LXtasy]

These tbss sure use different stuff than the other ls motors. Must be bothersome when ordering parts.

[adamcs]

Maybe you dropped your badge in there when you were working on it and its getting stuck on the pickup

[blueyed tuner]

http://img.tapatalk.com/625b1647-5ff0-8cc5.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/625b1647-6021-b876.jpg

O ring is perfect.

Damn sure looks perfect to me. Man I hate that. It kills me when there is a problem and you go back and look and its perfect.

[PapaBear]

Still questioning the pump at this point I guess. Blueprinted melling will be here this week I hope and comes with both o rings. Going to see what precision pumps says about which one to use.

By the way, pulling pickup tube bolt wasn't that bad with pan on. Hope installation is as cooperative. Fishing line around the bolt was a life saver.

[blueyed tuner]

Just being curious. Has anyone actually checked the diameter of a gm camshaft on the journals vs the ones on a new cam ? Just seems like alot of oil pressure issues pop up after a cam change. Just thinking about clearance isuues and bleeding off more oil with a cam change.

[schardbody]

only time I've seen reports of pressure issues after came swap is when the pickup has been removed, low mileage swaps with no chain or pump upgrade never seem to have a problem. I still think the relief valve is sticking.

[98z-28camaro]

Just being curious. Has anyone actually checked the diameter of a gm camshaft on the journals vs the ones on a new cam ? Just seems like alot of oil pressure issues pop up after a cam change. Just thinking about clearance isuues and bleeding off more oil with a cam change.

well most ls1 aftermarket cams are still made by reputable companies like comp cams and lunati.....most of the people who do cam changes do the oil pump also... when the do the oil pump there is a small o ring that always gets pinched....90% of the time

[98Camarod]

Is it just me or does it look like a slit at the 1 oclock position, bottom part of it on the second picture?

[ShawnBoyMoody]

Is it just me or does it look like a slit at the 1 oclock position, bottom part of it on the second picture?

Not just you. I doubt its enough to be a problem but a slit nonetheless.

[ForceFed4g63]

I thought the same thing about the slit, might just be the lighting. Have you checked the sender yet?

[PapaBear]

Is it just me or does it look like a slit at the 1 oclock position, bottom part of it on the second picture?

Must be the picture. I'll get some better ones later.

Any way to test the bypass on the pump while it's off?

[03SVTCOBRA]

Pretty sure i saw a slow TBSS with a out of uniform cop by the mall earlier.

[PapaBear]

Pretty sure i saw a slow TBSS with a out of uniform cop by the mall earlier.

Blue cobra?

[03SVTCOBRA]

Blue cobra?

Correct. Truck looked and sounded good.

[PapaBear]

Correct. Truck looked and sounded good.

Thanks man. Love the color of your car. Good to meet you, lol