flow results

[Pesce Nero]

LS 317 head with 2.00 intake and 1.55 exhaust

last night I did 2 ports, one the runner only with carbide cutter so it has dimpling similar to golf ball

the second was runner, bowl and chamber and finished with sand paper roll

Neil came over to help and verify results

stock port
.1 70
.2 144
.3 195
.4 230
.5 233
.6 236

runner only with carbide cutter
.1 75
.2 146
.3 200
.4 242
.5 265
.6 276

whole port and chamber sand rolled
.1 71
.2 143
.3 203
.4 242
.5 272
.6 280

the hump from the rocker bolt was not removed nor was the swirl hump near the guide on any port

I use to remove the swirl hump and I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes but Dupree has a set I did for him a long time ago that I will test

all and all, the 40 cfm increase should equate into a 60 hp increase on a mild build, 80 hp on higher comp, big cam engine

one more thing, Neil brought over 2 efi intakes, IMO, the intakes could use a gasket match, or better yet, just make the whole port wider like I'm capable of doing with carb based intake setups matched to the felpro paper gasket

[1998ta__1991rs]

my heads?

[Pesce Nero]

my heads?

no, are you in a hurry for yours? lol

[1998ta__1991rs]

no, lol

[minytrker]

I dont know anything about flow numbers or porting but those numbers seem high to me. I got this from AI's webpage

"Typical gains for our CNC work are in the 20-30rwhp SAE range over the as cast 241"

Those numbers seem more inline to me, but I know zero about porting.

[TurboWS6]

Nice work. how much you charging for the work?

[djfury05]

I dont know anything about flow numbers or porting but those numbers seem high to me. I got this from AI's webpage

"Typical gains for our CNC work are in the 20-30rwhp SAE range over the as cast 241"

Those numbers seem more inline to me, but I know zero about porting.

Agreed. Definitely high IMO. I gained 55rwhp with my AI 226 243s over stock 241s and that is BIG jump for 243s over 241s. SCR was 10.1:1 with 241s and after was 11.5:1 with the 243s. I'd say 30-35 would be very respectable and about what I would guess over stock 241s with those 317s.

[Pesce Nero]

I dont know anything about flow numbers or porting but those numbers seem high to me. I got this from AI's webpage

"Typical gains for our CNC work are in the 20-30rwhp SAE range over the as cast 241"

Those numbers seem more inline to me, but I know zero about porting.

cylinder head flow determines what HP an engine is capable of making. when I say HP I dont mean rwhp numbers either.

the simple formula is 1.5 hp per cfm for a hot street engine
2.0 hp for your run of the mill cookie cutter race engine
2.2 for balls out, high comp, low tension ring, gas ported piston type deal

so a 40 cfm increase x 1.5 is a 60 hp gain. If you dont make that 60 hp gain then there is a reason like the cross section area of the intake is the restriction

that brings me to some more heads that I flowed today

I'll start with Texas Speed PRC 243 cnc heads with 2.0 valve

.1 72
.2 137
.3 199
.4 241
.5 284
.6 307

these heads have the rocker bolt hump and swirl hump removed, also the cross section of the port was wider than stock. if you bolted a stock intake and gasket to this head, it surely would limit its potential because the intake and stock gasket is smaller than the port


also brought over today was an AFR 225 cathedral port head with 2.08 valve

.1 75
.2 141
.3 203
.4 250
.5 290
.6 319

Also flowed today and I'm completely embarrassed about this because I ported these a few years ago, were 5.3 heads with 1.88 intake valve

.1 70
.2 134
.3 190
.4 216
.5 245
.6 253

[Pesce Nero]

Agreed. Definitely high IMO. I gained 55rwhp with my AI 226 243s over stock 241s and that is BIG jump for 243s over 241s. SCR was 10.1:1 with 241s and after was 11.5:1 with the 243s. I'd say 30-35 would be very respectable and about what I would guess over stock 241s with those 317s.

what does your can run at the track and at what weight?

[minytrker]

cylinder head flow determines what HP an engine is capable of making. when I say HP I dont mean rwhp numbers either.

the simple formula is 1.5 hp per cfm for a hot street engine
2.0 hp for your run of the mill cookie cutter race engine
2.2 for balls out, high comp, low tension ring, gas ported piston type deal

so a 40 cfm increase x 1.5 is a 60 hp gain. If you dont make that 60 hp gain then there is a reason like the cross section area of the intake is the restriction

that brings me to some more heads that I flowed today

I'll start with Texas Speed PRC 243 cnc heads with 2.0 valve

.1 72
.2 137
.3 199
.4 241
.5 284
.6 307

these heads have the rocker bolt hump and swirl hump removed, also the cross section of the port was wider than stock. if you bolted a stock intake and gasket to this head, it surely would limit its potential because the intake and stock gasket is smaller than the port


also brought over today was an AFR 225 cathedral port head with 2.08 valve

.1 75
.2 141
.3 203
.4 250
.5 290
.6 319

Also flowed today and I'm completely embarrassed about this because I ported these a few years ago, were 5.3 heads with 1.88 intake valve

.1 70
.2 134
.3 190
.4 216
.5 245
.6 253

Makes more sense, thanks. I was just asking because I dont know. I had one set of heads ported by Texas Speed and they cracked all the way through the runner. After that I have always been gun shy. I have also seen more "ported" intakes make less hp than before they were ported.
Do an increase in cfm always equal more hp?

[BAD BOB]

Makes more sense, thanks. I was just asking because I dont know. I had one set of heads ported by Texas Speed and they cracked all the way through the runner. After that I have always been gun shy. I have also seen more "ported" intakes make less hp than before they were ported.
Do an increase in cfm always equal more hp?

i would think not always. maybe the more cfm would allow for less velocity which i guess could cause some adverse effects.

[djfury05]

what does your can run at the track and at what weight?

My H/C/I LS1 ran a best of 11.79 @ 126.5 mph at 3550 raceweight with me in it 2.01 60 ft.

[Pesce Nero]

no, the cfm does not always make more HP. velocity is critically important, the reason for such long runners on newer V8s. swirl into the chamber is also very important, one of the reason why i'm now gun shy about taking the swirl hump out.

the Texas Speed port is really big. If I can get Neil over here this week, I would like to do some intake bolted to the head testing. my feeling is my port job with a smaller runner will be equall in CFM to the Texas Speed head but mine will have more velocity which I can't measure yet because all the little add ons cost money and I have none

the smallest port with good flow equalls the fastest time down the track

[Pesce Nero]

My H/C/I LS1 ran a best of 11.79 @ 126.5 mph at 3550 raceweight with me in it 2.01 60 ft.

Your Horsepower computed from your vehicle weight of 3550 pounds and MPH of 126 is 583.66

583/2.0(hp per cfm)=291cfm

[djfury05]

Your Horsepower computed from your vehicle weight of 3550 pounds and MPH of 126 is 583.66

583/2.0(hp per cfm)=291cfm

Cool.. the car dyno'ed 474/428 to the rear. Here are the heads with flow numbers http://advancedinduction.com/LSX/AiLSx226ccGMLS2Head.php

[Pesce Nero]

Cool.. the car dyno'ed 474/428 to the rear. Here are the heads with flow numbers http://advancedinduction.com/LSX/AiLSx226ccGMLS2Head.php

what intake was on your car?

[djfury05]

FAST 92 unported. Nick Williams 92mm tb. FTP 98mm air lid.

[Pesce Nero]

FAST 92 unported. Nick Williams 92mm tb. FTP 98mm air lid.

i need to see one of them. but you can see how the math works out. simple

[slow04]

Gaskets are in,so whenever you want the heads...let me know

[Pesce Nero]

Gaskets are in,so whenever you want the heads...let me know

any night this week would be fine except when Tatu Baby is on TV which is tomorrow

[Pesce Nero]

3 more tests tonight

1st test was to check repeatability and my bench was right on the money

2nd test was the Texas Speed head with LS2 truck intake and CFM at .600 went from 307 for the head to 285 with the intake on it

3rd test same head with I believe is an LS6 intake and cfm with that intake was 287

[GreebeanZ28]

Good info.

[TurboWS6]

My LS1 intake is off the car right now if you want to flow it, but I will need it back.

[1998ta__1991rs]

you want my single plane you ported?

[Matts94Z28]

I still have the LT1 castings you did for me and I am sure I could find a stock head for comparison if you'd like. Then again, no one messes with the LT1 crap but me.

[Pesce Nero]

I am gathering info and passing it on to you guys here. If anyone wants me to check something I will within reason.

The single plane would be very interesting because of its different length runners

[Pesce Nero]

I still have the LT1 castings you did for me and I am sure I could find a stock head for comparison if you'd like. Then again, no one messes with the LT1 crap but me.

Is the head bolt pattern the same as a SBC? I would need a head gasket but I would do it for you. The head isn't to good so be prepared to be disappointed. I had some dart SBC heads 2 weeks ago and they were bad ass

[03SVTCOBRA]

I got a set of 4v cobra heads and intake you could try. You did the work on the intake.

[blkscls1z]

Nice work so far Ray! :bigthumb:

[1998ta__1991rs]

ill get you the intake sometime this week

[GreebeanZ28]

Then again, no one messes with the LT1 crap but me.

And me.

[Matts94Z28]

And me.

Then it could be useful to us. :bigthumb:

Got a stock head laying around in case mine went missing? I will be damned if I pull one off of the car. lol

[Pesce Nero]

I got a set of 4v cobra heads and intake you could try. You did the work on the intake.

that isnt really an intake but flowing the heads would be interesting. need head gasket. my bore stand will probably be to large i think though but it still might work

[slowgreen99]

Ray, I have some Vic jrs I need flowed over the off season...

[oldskoolstang]

I'd be interested to see what my AFR's 205's and 9.2 Victor Jr flowed versus using a friends Super Victor on the same heads.....

Also curious to see how the AFR 205's stack up against the Victor Jr's of SlowGreen, but mine are box stock with only different springs and titanium retainers, and i imagine his have had port work....

[Pesce Nero]

I'd be interested to see what my AFR's 205's and 9.2 Victor Jr flowed versus using a friends Super Victor on the same heads.....

Also curious to see how the AFR 205's stack up against the Victor Jr's of SlowGreen, but mine are box stock with only different springs and titanium retainers, and i imagine his have had port work....

you won't hear it from me how your heads stack up against anyone else's head, If and when I work on Brandon's only he will know and if he would like to share then thats fine.



also, my compressor blew up tonight so I have to get that fixed before anything productive gets done

[ShawnBoyMoody]

Yeah cause Nathans a big time grudge racer whos only goal in life is to own a set of cylinder heads that would out flow Brandons lol.

[GreebeanZ28]

Cylinder head dyno race ftw!

[oldskoolstang]

Oh yeah, I forgot Brandon's a grudge racer. Maybe he'd tell me since I don't race for money, or for the last several years, race at all.... Well if my buddy Tyler ever takes his Victor Jr's off I'm sure I can get his flowed......I know what the results are in a couple magazine tests, but I don't really trust the magazine numbers......

[Bradleyrj]

How much to port a set of Trick Flow Twisted Wedge SBF heads and a Victor efi intake for boosted applications. ? PM's are an ok response. But I'll hopefully need this done in the spring so I can order a custom cam.

[Pesce Nero]

Brad, flowed a set of as cast Trick Flow twisted Wedge heads last night and my numbers are exactly the same as what everyone says online.

at .500 they were done, 250 cfm, well at .600 it was 253 but it was over at that point

I'm very excited after a completely frustrating week of breaking shit and chasing Texas Speeds numbers. I must have had the head on the flow bench 20 times trying to get my numbers over the 280 mark In my first post with a set of LS 317 heads. There was no way I could take out the same amount of metal of the Texas Speed head and charge what I do. I would have really been happy to hit 290 cfm @ .600 with a much smaller port but the results are in. IMO, I like the Texas Speed Head and I'm sure AI's is really good too but If your going to run the TS head I would only put it on a stroker

[PapaBear]

Next time I pull my AI 243s ill let you test em. I'm curios to know.

[Pesce Nero]

Next time I pull my AI 243s ill let you test em. I'm curios to know.

you wanted me to port heads for you but you went elsewhere and now you want me to flow them. thats funny:bigthumb:

[PapaBear]

you wanted me to port heads for you but you went elsewhere and now you want me to flow them. thats funny:bigthumb:

I did want you to port them, but didn't have time. You will have the next set as I told you a few months ago, if you are willing of course. Wasn't meant to be funny at all. I'm sure you're curious to see the results as well. No need to be like that.

:Group Hug:

[Pesce Nero]

I did want you to port them, but didn't have time. You will have the next set as I told you a few months ago, if you are willing of course. Wasn't meant to be funny at all. I'm sure you're curious to see the results as well. No need to be like that.

:Group Hug:

AI's heads will probably measure out nearly the same as mine. I don't think for one second that the numbers they post are inaccurate. They would get to much crap if they did. I have a calibration plate with my setup and as long as everyone calibrates their flowbench there shouldn't be much differences between the numbers that anyone posts. My obsession with the Texas Speed head is that when someone put them on their car, it actually went slower. my goal was to come close with the flow numbers without taking so much metal out. And it wasnt easy to do.

[Matts94Z28]

Wow someone had a car slow down with a set of their heads. Most LS1tech'rs think they are great for a budget head.

[PapaBear]

I went with AI only out of convenience. I paid someone to do my cam install and had the heads done while That was in progress. I am curious to know what they flow, because I wanted you to do them, but shipping times and a lack of a donor set held me back. Don't know what I lost out of the situation other than $ lol. And they are 799s not 243s like I thought prior.

[Pesce Nero]

I went with AI only out of convenience. I paid someone to do my cam install and had the heads done while That was in progress. I am curious to know what they flow, because I wanted you to do them, but shipping times and a lack of a donor set held me back. Don't know what I lost out of the situation other than $ lol. And they are 799s not 243s like I thought prior.

its the same head casting and the flow numbers for the ai's are posted by djfury on the first page of this thread

[slow94]

Brad, flowed a set of as cast Trick Flow twisted Wedge heads last night and my numbers are exactly the same as what everyone says online.

at .500 they were done, 250 cfm, well at .600 it was 253 but it was over at that point

I'm very excited after a completely frustrating week of breaking shit and chasing Texas Speeds numbers. I must have had the head on the flow bench 20 times trying to get my numbers over the 280 mark In my first post with a set of LS 317 heads. There was no way I could take out the same amount of metal of the Texas Speed head and charge what I do. I would have really been happy to hit 290 cfm @ .600 with a much smaller port but the results are in. IMO, I like the Texas Speed Head and I'm sure AI's is really good too but If your going to run the TS head I would only put it on a stroker

What did the TW heads flow on the exhaust?

[RoadconeTuning]

Wow someone had a car slow down with a set of their heads. Most LS1tech'rs think they are great for a budget head.

grangers car made 15hp less than russ gto does now and he had a ported head with a 233/236 freaking .651 lift cam. im convinced those PRC and TS heads are just forum marketing. AI is good stuff to but Phil has absolutely zero people skills.

[LXtasy]

Ai loves south carolinians

[Pesce Nero]

What did the TW heads flow on the exhaust?

I need to make a valve opening fixture for the ford/mopar and chevy heads so I only quickly checked the intakes and the numbers on my intake side matched these almost exactly

Intake/exhaust
.1 63/53
.2 141/107
.3 205/144
.4 233/171
.5 251/187
.6 251/193

exhaust side is pretty good. intake side stalls at .5

[slow94]

Ok I was just wondering. On FI vehicles the most important side is the exhaust side. The air is going to get in there whether it likes it or not with my blower :mrgreen:. Just a matter of how good it can leave.

[BigdaddyDupree]

bump