Good News for the economy

[Mike]

Major U.S. railroads enjoyed the highest bulk carloadings in five months during the week ending Aug. 15, propelled by 2009 peak volume in scrap and metal ores needed in early stages of manufacturing, and the strongest rail shipments of finished vehicles since early spring.

Beneath the carload total, large carriers hauled 11,194 railcars carrying automobiles, other motor vehicles or other large finished equipment units, up from about 8,000 or fewer that was the weekly norm as recently as July.

Recent weeks have seen some auto plants return to production after prolonged shutdowns to retool and clear inventory, and as General Motors and Chrysler sorted out their systems through rapid bankruptcies. The industry also got a big push starting in late July from the federal “cash for clunkers” stimulus program, which gives big vouchers for new car purchases when old models are traded in.
In line with some recovery in auto manufacturing and from factories, railcar loadings of scrap materials -- mostly metals bound for recycling – hit a 2009 high at 8,398, along with metal ores at 4,627.



Link (http://www.joc.com/node/413002)

Now all we need is some bailout for our local home builders, some type of "cash for shack" deal. :hysterical:

[Pesce Nero]

Now all we need is some bailout for our local home builders, some type of "cash for shack" deal. :hysterical:

you must have seen my house


chrysler shipments are way up. :bigthumb:

good thing Mccain didnt win. :bigthumb:

[Mike]

you must have seen my house

Nope I haven't seen it, but I plan on coming out sometime. From what I hear you have a very nice Garage.

[Pesce Nero]

Nope I haven't seen it, but I plan on coming out sometime. From what I hear you have a very nice Garage.

thats all thats really important, isnt it:hysterical:

[Mike]

thats all thats really important, isnt it:hysterical:

Thats exactly what I told Kenny, when he told me he'd kill for your Garage.

[Pesce Nero]

Thats exactly what I told Kenny, when he told me he'd kill for your Garage.

if it wasnt so damn hot, it would be even nicer, i just cant keep it clean

[Pesce Nero]

Local News just said cash for clunkers ends monday and they were interviewing local dealers and the dealers said they were happy about it because they are almost out of cars and it will take a few weeks to replenish their stock

[LXtasy]

put ac in your garage and you will never go inside

[Mike]

Local News just said cash for clunkers ends monday and they were interviewing local dealers and the dealers said they were happy about it because they are almost out of cars and it will take a few weeks to replenish their stock

no the dealers cannot be happy according to Larry. I don't believe you.

Let me Poll a few local dealers to find out my self, I can't believe my good buddy Larry would give me false information. There is no way a Conservative Christian like him would hype up the failure of a democratic policy. :hide:

[Pesce Nero]

put ac in your garage and you will never go inside

have AC on my garage. used it when i first got the garage, got the electric bill and wanted to drop a stick of dynomite in the AC unit. i use the heat in the winter to take the chill out if its really cold

[LXtasy]

Ah. Shut every thing off in the house and use the garage :D

[Mike]

100% of the dealers i called said they were happy with cash for clunkers, and that I need to hurry down if i still want to participate in the plan.*







*This polll has a margin of error of 100%

[Pesce Nero]

no the dealers cannot be happy according to Larry. I don't believe you.

Let me Poll a few local dealers to find out my self, I can't believe my good buddy Larry would give me false information. There is no way a Conservative Christian like him would hype up the failure of a democratic policy. :hide:

Mike, Larry just got out of the hospital, he is probably on the same drugs as Rush Limbaugh, that would be the reason for the nonsensicle outburts

[Mike]

Mike, Larry just got out of the hospital, he is probably on the same drugs as Rush Limbaugh, that would be the reason for the nonsensicle outburts

Your probably right. I forgot all about that.

[LXtasy]

I bet the drugs larry is on isn't near as brain altering as alot of the sheeple who believe everything is perfect when the government has all the control and power of what you do and think!

[Pesce Nero]

I bet the drugs larry is on isn't near as brain altering as alot of the sheeple who believe everything is perfect when the government has all the control and power of what you do and think!

lot of good a government with no control did for the past 8 years

[Mike]

I bet the drugs larry is on isn't near as brain altering as alot of the sheeple who believe everything is perfect when the government has all the control and power of what you do and think!

The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by a perceived authority figure believed to ...

It's funny that all the sheeple I see are the Conservatives spewing unsubstantiated claims of socialism. These people believe everything the RNC is saying. I don't mind listening to what they have to say , but I have to have facts to believe them. Give me something solid to back up what you are saying, just don't assume I'm going to believe whatever I'm told.

A good solid argument/debate on the subject is needed. That's the main reason I get on here and argue with you guys. Because every once in a while one of you says something that makes sense. I just play the devil's advocate to get it out of you. :bigthumb:

[gearmesh, inc.]

While the Cash for Clunkers program seems like a success right now by just looking at sales figures, a lot of dealers are financially on thin ice because the government hasn't gotten off any of the $4500 per trade in to reimburse them yet.

So, that means that most every one of these car deals have been negative cash flow for the dealers that don't have deep pockets to survive the long wait for reimbursement. A few of the smart dealers haven't been destroying the engines right away in these clunkers just in case the government doesn't come through on reimbursement. At least they will be able to sell these clunker trades for at least something vs. taking a $4500 loss on each trade.

Here's another kicker that I found out this morning......The government will be treating the $4500 per car reimbursement money to dealers as income to be taxed on. Yes, the WHOLE $4500.

Now, imagine the taxable amount if these trade-ins were just normal trade-ins without government interference. For example, a dealer gives $3000 for a trade in from a customer and puts it in their used car inventory and re-sells it for $4500. Profit wise, that is only $1500 that income taxes would be paid on.

So, in the end with the back door tax scheme buried in this "cash for clunkers" program, out of every $4500 the government says it doles out, they will be getting back $1800 worth of taxes back in their own pocket.

Leave it up to the government to put the screws to someone in the name of good intentions.

[Harry]

Thats ok Mike you just keep the faith. Thats all the world needs.
And if I remember correctly, the main reason we are in this mess is because of Clinton. Remember, the person that wanted everyone to have a home!!! Bush didn't help any!

[Pesce Nero]

no the dealers cannot be happy according to Larry. I don't believe you.

Let me Poll a few local dealers to find out my self, I can't believe my good buddy Larry would give me false information. There is no way a Conservative Christian like him would hype up the failure of a democratic policy. :hide:

hey Larry, this ones for you

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32490783/

[Whaler]

no the dealers cannot be happy according to Larry. I don't believe you.

Let me Poll a few local dealers to find out my self, I can't believe my good buddy Larry would give me false information. There is no way a Conservative Christian like him would hype up the failure of a democratic policy. :hide:

Smart a$$... You've always got a spoon in the pot. :cheers
The dealers will be happy when they get paid. Read the front page of yesterdays paper. I copied it here.

Mike, Larry just got out of the hospital, he is probably on the same drugs as Rush Limbaugh, that would be the reason for the nonsensicle outburts

Been over a week since the drugs. I now prefer alcohol, thank you. :cheers Personally, I think the outbursts are a direct result of the experimental drugs from 20 something years ago.

While the Cash for Clunkers program seems like a success right now by just looking at sales figures, a lot of dealers are financially on thin ice because the government hasn't gotten off any of the $4500 per trade in to reimburse them yet.

So, that means that most every one of these car deals have been negative cash flow for the dealers that don't have deep pockets to survive the long wait for reimbursement. A few of the smart dealers haven't been destroying the engines right away in these clunkers just in case the government doesn't come through on reimbursement. At least they will be able to sell these clunker trades for at least something vs. taking a $4500 loss on each trade.

Here's another kicker that I found out this morning......The government will be treating the $4500 per car reimbursement money to dealers as income to be taxed on. Yes, the WHOLE $4500.

Now, imagine the taxable amount if these trade-ins were just normal trade-ins without government interference. For example, a dealer gives $3000 for a trade in from a customer and puts it in their used car inventory and re-sells it for $4500. Profit wise, that is only $1500 that income taxes would be paid on.

So, in the end with the back door tax scheme buried in this "cash for clunkers" program, out of every $4500 the government says it doles out, they will be getting back $1800 worth of taxes back in their own pocket.

Leave it up to the government to put the screws to someone in the name of good intentions.

Gearmesh, Who pays for the back door tax scheme? For that matter, where is the money coming from for the clunkers program?

hey Larry, this ones for you

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32490783/

I'd be ok with that as long as the consumers file the rebate. I'd prefer to see it as a tax credit.
The tax credit for Energy Star Appliances, Windows, and other "green" building materials has been in effect for a while.

[gearmesh, inc.]

Gearmesh, Who pays for the back door tax scheme? For that matter, where is the money coming from for the clunkers program?




In the end, I agree that the dealers are the ones that pay for the back door tax scheme up to a point. What I have a beef with is that this little tidbit of tax information only rose to the surface AFTER the program was up and running.

Another crappy aspect of the program is that us taxpayers are on the hook for the initial funding of $4500 per car in order to kick off this program. The government has rigged it to where they re-pocket about $1800 in taxes from the original $4500 for their own greed. Wouldn't it be nice if 100% of this $4500 per car "stimulus" actually went into the economy and stayed there where it is supposed to be the most effective? The source of this funding for the $4500 per car was tax revenue from US WORKING FOLKS to begin with.

The government in effect has created another downstream taxation point to tax the SAME DOLLAR that has already been pulled out of OUR salaries to begin with in order to fund this $4500 per car program.

The system is rigged to tax the same dollar again and again as it makes laps through the economy.

[wade w]

Please tell me nobody here thinks the cash for clunkers was a good idea. That was one of the dumbest things ever. It was suppose to help the american auto makers. You know, to help the american economy. But they let any auto maker do it. And most of the people are going to imports in the name of fuel economy im sure. Then the idea that getting these gross polluters off the road and replacing them with fuel efficient cars is helping is just retarted. Sure they get a little better fuel mileage, but that doesnt make up for the pollution they make to build the new cars. And the old ones have to go some were. But hey we have plenty of empty land fills right?
Yea that was a great idea.:Finger2:

[Shane361]

I'm glad everyone is so happy the "government" chipped in that 4500 bucks..ow wait...where does the "government" get their money... oh yeah...your welcome:poke: Biggest socialistic program to date.

[Whaler]

I wonder how bad the car business will be in the coming months now that this program is ending? They bought their future business in tha past month. Now if they can only collect.

[Pesce Nero]

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. what can you tax if no one is making money? and would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

McCain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. stop your crying, atleast their trying

[Ballaholic29414]

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. What can you tax if no one is making money? And would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

mccain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. Stop your crying, atleast their trying





amen!!

[Illusions]

unemployment is taxable too. just had to throw that in there...lol

[Harry]

Its been proven that throwing good money after bad money does not work. Lets not learn from our mistakes. Lets just keep saying its going to work this time!!! Atleast they are trying. Even if it was a different person in charge it would be stupid. Just so happens its Obama. Its now the democrats turn to be blamed for everyhing!

[1iron]

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. what can you tax if no one is making money? and would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

McCain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. stop your crying, atleast their trying

Why not just send the 3 Billion to the workers? Half the "clunker" money went to Japan. It was a stupid idea.

[Mike]

Half the "clunker" money went to Japan.

Says who?

[Pesce Nero]

Why not just send the 3 Billion to the workers? Half the "clunker" money went to Japan. It was a stupid idea.

Bush tried that and it didnt do anything. what is 3 billion devided by 3 million million people that benifited from the program? a whole $100

most Jap cars are now built by American workers. Most of you consertives wanted to let the American car companies died and now you have a problem with selling certain brand cars? Please stop the flip flopping:hysterical:

[Mike]

I wish they would of limited the money to only American cars, or at the very least American made cars. From what I read the original idea had that in there, but it had to be deleted because of trade law violations that would be made.

Out of the top 5 cars sold under the "cash for clunker" program only 1 was made over seas.

1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius - made in Japan
5. Toyota Camry

[Mike]

Average fuel mileage of vehicles traded in was 15.8 mpg. Average fuel mileage of vehicle purchased was 25.4 mpg

Source: N.H.T.A

[Illusions]

let's not forget all the people the Focus will keep employyed trying to keep the thing running right and with operational A/C. Can't say that with the foriegn cars. Those won't break near as much. :)

[Darryl Buckner]

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. what can you tax if no one is making money? and would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

McCain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. stop your crying, atleast their trying

So lets see GM factory workers need to get more money. 82,000 per year to drive a forklift around the plant delivering parts is not enough. No wonder to me cars are so expensive. I could understand a vehicle designer or engineer making that. But yet US auto manufacturers have to compete with foreign companies with almost slave labor. Don't get it twisted not saying McCain would be any better. Its just time to quit looking for a fast solution to the county's problems, because the problems didn't happen fast. Its going to take time and work to get this country back right again.

[Mike]

So lets see GM factory workers need to get more money. 82,000 per year to drive a forklift around the plant delivering parts is not enough.

WRONG!!

This plan was not about them getting more money, it was about getting them their job back.


...and as far as pay:
As of 2006
Average UAW unskilled laborer's salary is ~28/hr
Average UAW skilled laborer's salary is ~33/hr

The CEOs of the companies had an average salary of 8 million dollars. That's ~2,000 dollars an hour if they worked a 80 hour work week.

Your sadly mistaken if you think that domestic automobile prices will drop if the UAW members made less money. The fat cat CEOs would just add a few zero's to the end of their compensation packages.

[Darryl Buckner]

WRONG!!

This plan was not about them getting more money, it was about getting them their job back.


...and as far as pay:
As of 2006
Average UAW unskilled laborer's salary is ~28/hr
Average UAW skilled laborer's salary is ~33/hr

The CEOs of the companies had an average salary of 8 million dollars. That's ~2,000 dollars an hour if they worked a 80 hour work week.

Your sadly mistaken if you think that domestic automobile prices will drop if the UAW members made less money. The fat cat CEOs would just add a few zero's to the end of their compensation packages.

I agree its about them getting their job back, but 28 an hour for unskilled labor, are you kidding me. Just what a so called bankrupt company needs. Also I agree with the fat cat ceo's that is true. Freddie, Frannie, and GM should have been left to their own fate, because that is exactly where the bailout money went was the CEO's, at our expense. The key words being "our expense" democrat or Republican..

[LXtasy]

reason why foreign cars sold more is because of price of the car to the consumer. better bang for the buck. focuS wow big pos. hated kristens shitty interior, uncomfortable sea+s and a/c problems .

[cobraetti]

what about the SVT Focus?:cry:

[LXtasy]

overpriced and dont have the power to compete with the other "tuner" cars. but than again, ford probaby says it is in its own class.

[DolSVT00]

Hey I want in on that dollars for dishwashers, eccept I want a new A/C............ I'm back to having a "Race House" again.

[clubracergt1]

The new Focus is light years ahead of the 1st gen in terms of content and quality. Also, everyone seems to forget that Ford is #1 in least number of "Things gone wrong". We are beating all comers in initial quality; and, if the amount of my paycheck can be a measure of how often they break, long term Ford has a strong product.

Just because you had a rough time with your Focus, Hal, don't hammer on an entire company.

[clubracergt1]

overpriced and dont have the power to compete with the other "tuner" cars.

I, personally, think that's why the SVT Focus was shelved. Now, if they would get the RS over here, that would be something worth putting an SVT badge on.

[LXtasy]

I still say this. THe focus is a throw-away car. Search craigslist and look around at the 1st whatever ford focus. Alot of people have the same problem or more problem.

[gearmesh, inc.]

Those high quality Jap cars like Honda and Toyota have historically had lots more resale value that the UAW sandbaged domestic cars ever will.

Ford uses excellent marketing strategy to sell their new cars that bring in near the same money as an equivalent Jap import, but resale values of the Jap imports kick their ass.

Even if Ford is stepping up on quality as their marketing suggests, they still have skeletons in the closet like the 1st generation Fucus that will keep the used marketplace very wary for a long time to come.

Back when I got my Dodge Ram 3500, I hated the thought of contributing to any UAW wastefulness for a truck, but it was the only diesel truck that didn't have a bad track record on powertrain durability. Dodge just makes the body (small UAW component), Cummins (known for diesels done right) supplies the engine, New Venture Gear makes the transmission (not Dodge), and American Axle makes the rearend (not Dodge). It was the most non-UAW truck on the market at the time.

Now, if Toyota or Nissan ever steps up to the plate with a dually diesel, the big 3 participation in this market will at least be cut in half.

[clubracergt1]

Now, if Toyota or Nissan ever steps up to the plate with a dually diesel, the big 3 participation in this market will at least be cut in half.


I actually doubt that a little, Gerald. Perception is key in the truck business. While Toyota and Nissan have definately made some waves in the 1/2 ton truck market, the people who typically use their trucks for work are still driving trucks from the Big 3. I think, personally, that any foreign vehicle manufacturer, who ventures into the 1 ton truck market, will be wasting their engineering dollars. I don't think very many fleet companies will want to run an unproven combo. And I haven't met too many farmers that want to be seen running around in some "Rice Burner" truck. I don't even think it would work if the foreign companies simply rebadged an American truck. Look at the Mitsubishi Raider. All it is is a rebadged Dakota, and you hardly ever see any of those on the road.

Just my .02

[gearmesh, inc.]

That Mitsubishi Raider is one UGLY truck. That one is definitely a flop.

Yeah, the big 3 will hang on to some market share due to their tough american truck image. There will be some die-hards that will never jump the fence.

What I have seen among the past 10 years or so even among a lot of Berkeley county redneck hunters like myself is the increasing number of the small 4WD Toyota trucks with dogboxes in the back during hunting season. It used to be that rednecks were the last to ever be seen jumping on the Jap truck bandwagon. Lately, these trucks have been gaining a lot of the market share in this segment.

If our government is going to force us to play in the global economy, we as consumers might as well get the best value for our dollars when it comes to vehicle choices.