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DolSVT00
06-19-2010, 11:09 AM
Hyperucraptic pistons and Powderd rods just like all the other mod motors....................The bottom end is a ticking timebomb.


Is the New 5.0 Liter Engine Ready for Boost? A Look at the Internals
While the 2011 Mustang GT is just starting to hit the dealer lots, a few owners have already started to test the limits of new 5.0-liter modular engine. While nitrous is the obvious weapon of choice for an easy 1 to 2 second gain in ETÔÇÖs, the question is raised how will the engine respond to forced induction like superchargers or turbos.
http://www.stangtv.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3762&stc=1&d=1276654864


Currently Ford Racing is evaluating an intercooled twin-screw supercharger on the 5.0-liter engine. The supercharger is being developed for the 2011 Shelby GT350 and as a Do It Yourself kit for any 2011 Mustang GT owner. According to a recent YouTube testing video, Ford Racing has left the stock internals untouched and are running a safe 4-5 pounds of boost with excellent results. The supercharged 5.0-liter test engine has been evaluated using a 100-hour engine dyno test as well as a 4-hour chassis dyno pull at various temperatures and altitudes.

http://www.stangtv.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3763&stc=1&d=1276654864

While some debate the 5.0 literÔÇÖs 11.5:1 compression ratio being too high for boost, FordÔÇÖs new variable cam engine technology is a brand new chapter in Ford engine performances. While the engine uses a few carryover features from the 4.6 modular engine, Ford says the 5.0 Liter design is brand new and the variable valve technology on all four cams is what allows the high compression engine to work well in boosted applications

Aluminum Block
The 5.0 Liter aluminum engine block is stiffer than previous 2 and 3 valve Mustang GT modular engines. The exterior block features more ribbing and cross-hatching to improve rigidity, a feature that should come in handy when enthusiasts start to add power parts like turbos or superchargers.

http://www.stangtv.com/photos/data/515/block1.jpg

The bore spacing is 100 mm and features eight 92.2 mm (3.629 inches) bores with 92.7 mm (3.649) stroke to equal 302 cubic inches ÔÇô a historic number in Mustang history. As with past aluminum modular blocks, the engine features pressed in iron cylinder liners with a new thinner design to achieve the optimum bore size.

The crankcase of a production 5.0-liter block features thick fully machined main webs, oval PCV ventilation ducts and piston cooling jet mounts. The cooling jets are direct result from FordÔÇÖs race engine programs and are fed oil directly from the main oil galley. The piston cooling jets bolt to the underside of the block galley and aid in cold engine start-up and prevent detonation. The valley is also optimized for windage and oil drain back under high RPM and sloshing conditions.

The 5.0-liter engine block uses 6 bolt nodular iron main caps with larger bolts. Each cap is bolted to the block with four down bolts and two cross bolts. With such a tight bottom end, crank walk will be the least of your problems with this engine

Crankshaft
5.0-Liter Mustang cranks are manufactured by Kellogg Crankshafts, and are fully counterweighted steel forgings. The counter weighting allows the crank to rev to 7,000 rpms with ease. The leading edge of the crankshaft journal-oiling hole is machined to improve oiling at high RPMs.

http://www.stangtv.com/photos/data/515/crank.jpg

Connecting Rods
The connecting rods are forged from powdered metal and designed for reduced weight. The small end features a bronze bushing and full floating pin. With the 5.0 Liters center-to-center length the same as a 4.6-liter engine, we imagine the Manley H-beam type connecting rods found in the 2003-2004 Terminator Cobra would be an easy upgrade for this engine. Race engine builders looking to up the 5.0 liters power output past 600 hp should consider forged H-beam rods


Pistons
The 5.0 liters hypereutectic pistons were designed by Mahle to be tough yet light and come in at 11:1 compression. Updates such as hard anodizing around the top ring groove and friction-reducing moly coating are incorporated to help extend piston life under hard load. On the top end the valve reliefs are fly cut to tight tolerances.

http://www.stangtv.com/photos/data/515/Picture048.jpeg

Cylinder Heads
The other pride point after the variable valve timing is the 5.0-liter cylinder heads. According to the engine team, the intake valves flow 4 percent better than the GT500 head and better than the old D3 NASCAR head. The 5.0-liter combustion chamber is a well-balanced design featuring two 37 mm intake valves and two 31mm exhaust valves. Intake ports are form a vertical shape and measure 193cc, exhaust ports are round and measure 37mm. Because the engine uses such small valves, the valvetrain is designed to be very compact. Roller finger followers actuated by the cams activate tiny rocker arms. Beehive valvesprings keep tension on the valves and seals the combustion chamber.
http://www.stangtv.com/photos/data/515/Picture001.jpeg


The 5.0-liter cams provide max lift at 12mm (0.472-inch) on the intake and 11mm (0.432-inch) on the exhaust side. The VCT system can advance or retard the cams from their initial position from 81 degrees to 131 degrees.

Intake Design
The new 5.0 Liter engine features a plastic intake that in past models has proven to be lighter, cheaper to produce and delivers a cooler air charge. Composite intakes are now a given in naturally aspirated applications and a single 80mm single bore throttle body feeds 8 equal length intake runners. Aluminum spacers hold the fuel rails in place as the feed eight high flow injectors

Exhaust Headers
Short tube tuned twin T-style headers were developed by the 5.0 liter engine team to maximize the unique exhaust pulses from the Ti-VCT engine. While the Job 1 cars feature the tubular headers we hear a cast exhaust manifold is in the works for a mid-year update.

Conclusion
With the new 5.0 liter engine already peaked out at efficiency, many will debate the need to add boost to such a great package. But with the engine already designed to handle boost as part of Ford's EcoBoost future, it will be interesting to see how much the engine can take with a aftermarket supercharger or turbo. ItÔÇÖs evident that Ford Racing has already perfected the low boost supercharger application. Its now up to the various Mustang tuners to attempt a high boost R&D program on an engine that is totally different than the old 3 and 4-valve modular engines.

bwelch
06-19-2010, 01:12 PM
should have went back to a pushrod like the old 5.0.

05Saleen
06-19-2010, 01:32 PM
should have went back to a pushrod like the old 5.0.

They still had week rods. Change the rod's and you are good to about 600 hp before the block splits.

MonteC
06-19-2010, 03:32 PM
should have went back to a pushrod like the old 5.0.

TiVCT is pretty much the corner stone of most of fords new engines. Cant really do that with pushrods.

clubracergt1
06-19-2010, 10:06 PM
Hyperucraptic pistons and Powderd rods just like all the other mod motors....................The bottom end is a ticking timebomb.



The piston cooling jets and the hard anodizing should make it more durable. You can rest assured that anything Ford Racing puts on it will be safe. At least the entry level kit will be. Reason being, they will not release a kit that is not able to be covered for the 3/36 warranty. (Typically, blower motors have limited powertrain coverage to 5/60 because of the added stresses.) I wouldn't worry too much about it. Hell, even at 5 psi, it'll (probably) still make somewhere in the 550-600 fwhp.

DolSVT00
06-19-2010, 10:34 PM
The piston cooling jets and the hard anodizing should make it more durable. You can rest assured that anything Ford Racing puts on it will be safe. At least the entry level kit will be. Reason being, they will not release a kit that is not able to be covered for the 3/36 warranty. (Typically, blower motors have limited powertrain coverage to 5/60 because of the added stresses.) I wouldn't worry too much about it. Hell, even at 5 psi, it'll (probably) still make somewhere in the 550-600 fwhp.

None of that will save those pencils they call rods though.

should have went back to a pushrod like the old 5.0.

There good motors and can make power, but the mod motors are superior when it comes to gas mileage,efficiency longevity (in as delivered form) and emissions... That's why they exist.

Sux for drag racer's though, and really sux for oldschooler's that are used to working on a bicycle versus a jet engine.

clubracergt1
06-19-2010, 10:36 PM
They seem to be doing ok with the shock of nitrous, though. And that's not even a gradual hit. I know it's not the same as boost; but increased cylinder pressure is still increased cylinder pressure. Anyway, only Lightning guys seem to have a problem with breaking rods. There are some pretty bad ass stock bottom end 3-valves running around under a ton of boost that are holding together just fine. Just put the combo together correctly (and don't ask STOCK parts to do too much), and she'll last.

Dave
06-19-2010, 10:43 PM
Sux for drag racer's though, and really sux for oldschooler's that are used to working on a bicycle versus a jet engine.

Does that make you a Jet mechanic then? :bigthumb:

LXtasy
06-20-2010, 08:25 AM
Does that make you a Jet mechanic then? :bigthumb:

No. Randy tinkers with space shuttle technology. Big step up from jet engines.

DolSVT00
06-20-2010, 11:37 PM
They seem to be doing ok with the shock of nitrous, though. And that's not even a gradual hit. I know it's not the same as boost; but increased cylinder pressure is still increased cylinder pressure. Anyway, only Lightning guys seem to have a problem with breaking rods. There are some pretty bad ass stock bottom end 3-valves running around under a ton of boost that are holding together just fine. Just put the combo together correctly (and don't ask STOCK parts to do too much), and she'll last.


Rod length and sheer vehicle weight has more to do with it than anything when it come's to 5.4's versus 4.6's

5.4's are 6.658 length

4.6's are 5.933 length

Thats why they hold up a little better, but junk rods are still junk rods and hyperuPOS pistons are still junk.

Anything will live a couple time's with a good tune and withstand some major beating, my stock 5.4 made over 200 track passes at 15-17# of boost and would run 7.6's and 12.1's all day long..... BUT all it took was the stars to allign and it sent a rod through the side of the block making its fastest pass on that motor.

the12fast4u
06-20-2010, 11:52 PM
the new 5.0 is going to show the world that the mustang is serious and is here to stay ,pushrod power has been around for 50 to 60 years they should be making serious power by now! ford released the 4.6 in the crown vic in 91,didnt go into the mustang till 96.which mustang =performance 96-98 were very rough years ,im sure when the pushrod was first introduced they had a few bugs to work out to.but if you count the years its been 14 years since the mustang has had the 4.6 and ford has made major headway performance wise. given the same amount of time that the pushrod had been around the 4.6 will supercede the pushrod design,it already is,have you ever seen a fox come with 412hp from the factory?with ac,cc,heat,and so on the new mustang is very potent! aeromotive's Steve Matusek blew away the Pro 5.0 records books with a twin turbocharged Modular mustang in 2007,the overhead cams are making their mark high and low!and they arent that hard to work on

bwelch
06-21-2010, 12:13 AM
four cams is exspensive as shit to upgrade. Chevy still have pushrod motors that peform well and get good gas mileage. Thats why I said the pushrod comment.

Illusions
06-21-2010, 07:01 AM
In 1996 when the 4.6 was introduced into the "Performance" Mustang it only had 215hp. All while the 350 pushrod was producing 275 for GM. It took Ford 3 years to come within 15 hp of the 96 lt1's performance. But wait, that would make it 1999 and the LS1 was now out for two years with 305hp. Ford fell behind and has been dragging it's feet for years. It's only now that Ford feels they have to actually produce something worth while 412hp. but wait the camaro ss has 422hp pushrod motor and the ls6 has been around a few years already.

I purposely did not use the Cobra numbers as an example since I wanted to compare similar priced vehicles aimed at the same market.

I've owned my fair share of Fords and the 4.6 whether it be 2v, 3v, or 4v mod motors are expensive to mod and maintain. I would bet the 5.0 mod motor will be just as expensive to own and/or mod.

aeromotive's Steve Matusek blew away the Pro 5.0 records books with a twin turbocharged Modular mustang in 2007,

How many original Ford parts were still on the motor and in the car? I would say NONE, not even the block.

LXtasy
06-21-2010, 07:09 AM
i saw about time. but i agree with randy, put better rods and pistons in because u know the world is going to go for the gusto on them since they have good base

MonteC
06-21-2010, 07:52 AM
the new 5.0 is going to show the world that the mustang is serious and is here to stay ,pushrod power has been around for 50 to 60 years they should be making serious power by now! ford released the 4.6 in the crown vic in 91,didnt go into the mustang till 96.which mustang =performance 96-98 were very rough years ,im sure when the pushrod was first introduced they had a few bugs to work out to.but if you count the years its been 14 years since the mustang has had the 4.6 and ford has made major headway performance wise. given the same amount of time that the pushrod had been around the 4.6 will supercede the pushrod design,it already is,have you ever seen a fox come with 412hp from the factory?with ac,cc,heat,and so on the new mustang is very potent! aeromotive's Steve Matusek blew away the Pro 5.0 records books with a twin turbocharged Modular mustang in 2007,the overhead cams are making their mark high and low!and they arent that hard to work on

Overhead cam motors have been around WAY before pushrod motors.

jmd
06-21-2010, 10:22 AM
i saw about time. but i agree with randy, put better rods and pistons in because u know the world is going to go for the gusto on them since they have good base

that's how they make money. rebuild and aftermarket parts.

1iron
06-21-2010, 10:51 AM
In 1996 when the 4.6 was introduced into the "Performance" Mustang it only had 215hp. All while the 350 pushrod was producing 275 for GM. It took Ford 3 years to come within 15 hp of the 96 lt1's performance. But wait, that would make it 1999 and the LS1 was now out for two years with 305hp. Ford fell behind and has been dragging it's feet for years. It's only now that Ford feels they have to actually produce something worth while 412hp. but wait the camaro ss has 422hp pushrod motor and the ls6 has been around a few years already.

I purposely did not use the Cobra numbers as an example since I wanted to compare similar priced vehicles aimed at the same market.

I've owned my fair share of Fords and the 4.6 whether it be 2v, 3v, or 4v mod motors are expensive to mod and maintain. I would bet the 5.0 mod motor will be just as expensive to own and/or mod.



How many original Ford parts were still on the motor and in the car? I would say NONE, not even the block.

Who makes that block? I could use one.

DolSVT00
06-21-2010, 01:37 PM
Who makes that block? I could use one.

Ford makes the block, contrary to popular belief there are no aftermarket modular blocks, just reworked ford castings or aluminum forgings with someone elses name machined on them. Same thing with oil pumps and stock stroke cranks (kellogg makes them for the 5.4's and the select 4.6's).
There's no such thing as a built block, only a stock block with good internals.

Its well known that any 4.6/5.4 block will hold in excess of 1500 hp from the factory, its been shown many times to date. The internals however, completely suck. The 5.0 modular blocks are the same only most likely stronger due to the 6 bolt main caps instead of 4.