Convert to E85 or meth?

[Carlrx7]

Adding meth will be pretty easy and only cost me about 500 bucks max. E85 conversion will cost about 3000 bones to do right.

I know we have one e85 station here in Ladson. Where do those blue race trucks get there meth from?

Thanks

-Carl

[chrisheltra]

Adding meth will be pretty easy and only cost me about 500 bucks max. E85 conversion will cost about 3000 bones to do right.

I know we have one e85 station here in Ladson. Where do those blue race trucks get there meth from?

Thanks

-Carl

Driggers small engine repair on College park. $3/gal 119 octane if unmixed vs 94-96 octane for E85.

[chrisheltra]

http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/ISG-MAF.html

[BigdaddyDupree]

check out alcohol injection systems and talk to rodney about their trunk mount kit it's real nice. And I've always read meth was 140 octane

[1BAD4DR]

Just found out they can do E85 on the 2011 mustangs with no upgrades chris, so you need to get on that...magoo knows more so maybe he will chime in

[red99pony]

I've always read meth was 140 octane

x2 is there different grades of octane for meth?

[red99pony]

good read i thought

E85 has an octane rating higher than that of regular gasoline's typical rating of 87, or premium gasoline's 91-93. This allows it to be used in higher compression engines which tend to produce more power per unit of displacement than their gasoline counterparts. The Renewable Fuels Foundation states in its Changes in Gasoline IV manual, "There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanolÔÇÖs blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. EthanolÔÇÖs true octane value should be used to calculate E85ÔÇÖs octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual octane engine tests." [6]

One complication is that use of gasoline in an engine with a high enough compression ratio to use E85 efficiently would likely result in catastrophic failure due to engine detonation, as the octane rating of gasoline is not high enough to withstand the greater compression ratios in use in an engine specifically designed to run on E85. Use of E85 in an engine designed specifically for gasoline would result in a loss of the potential efficiency that it is possible to gain with this fuel. Using E85 in a gasoline engine has the drawback of achieving lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit air (stoichiel ratio) to run the engine in comparison with gasoline. This corresponds to a lower heating value (units of energy per unit mass) for E85 than gasoline. Some vehicles can actually be converted to use E85 despite not being specifically built for it. Because of the lower heating value E85 has a cooler intake charge, which coupled with its high stability level from its high octane rating, has also been used as a "power adder" in turbocharged performance vehicles. These modifications have not only resulted in lower GHG emissions, but also resulted in 10-12% horsepower and torque increase at the wheels. Because of its low price (less than $2.00/gal in some places) and high availability in certain areas people have started to turn to using it in place of the high end race fuels that typically cost over $10.00/gal.

[DolSVT00]

x2 is there different grades of octane for meth?

It would depend on the concentration, its an alcohol, so like E85, you cannot figure it by RM/2.

You can use strait water in the same manner as Methanol as long as it is atomized, it will suppress detonation in the CC. Although, not as well as a meth/water mix.

Some of the problems with E85 is fuel system requirements and the amount of extra fuel needed. It also suppresses audible knock, when in fact inaudible knock could be present.

For the OP.

On a blower, I'd do water/methanol you'll get more cooling from it because like E85 as its pressurized it becomes very cold, I'd shoot it pre blower, even though most will say not to because some unknowing nutt huggers will say "noooooooooo it will eat everything up its corrosive and my wiener is small".

All that shit ever did was clean my junk, it aint hurt shit in 3 years and I shoot it on aluminum rotors.

[DolSVT00]

good read i thought

E85 has an octane rating higher than that of regular gasoline's typical rating of 87, or premium gasoline's 91-93. This allows it to be used in higher compression engines which tend to produce more power per unit of displacement than their gasoline counterparts. The Renewable Fuels Foundation states in its Changes in Gasoline IV manual, "There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanolÔÇÖs blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85. EthanolÔÇÖs true octane value should be used to calculate E85ÔÇÖs octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual octane engine tests." [6]

One complication is that use of gasoline in an engine with a high enough compression ratio to use E85 efficiently would likely result in catastrophic failure due to engine detonation, as the octane rating of gasoline is not high enough to withstand the greater compression ratios in use in an engine specifically designed to run on E85. Use of E85 in an engine designed specifically for gasoline would result in a loss of the potential efficiency that it is possible to gain with this fuel. Using E85 in a gasoline engine has the drawback of achieving lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit air (stoichiel ratio) to run the engine in comparison with gasoline. This corresponds to a lower heating value (units of energy per unit mass) for E85 than gasoline. Some vehicles can actually be converted to use E85 despite not being specifically built for it. Because of the lower heating value E85 has a cooler intake charge, which coupled with its high stability level from its high octane rating, has also been used as a "power adder" in turbocharged performance vehicles. These modifications have not only resulted in lower GHG emissions, but also resulted in 10-12% horsepower and torque increase at the wheels. Because of its low price (less than $2.00/gal in some places) and high availability in certain areas people have started to turn to using it in place of the high end race fuels that typically cost over $10.00/gal.

Whoever wrote that article should be shot for saying E85 is a fakkin "power adder" someone needs to power add a vibrator in his azz.

[White00gt]

If I only had the two choices above. I would go meth injection. Get like a Frozen Boost kit or check what was listed above. Screw converting to E85. E100+ is the only one that is not blended with anything.

[Carlrx7]

im at 80% duty cycle now so, id run meth 100% straight if i goto a smaller pulley =)

[DolSVT00]

im at 80% duty cycle now so, id run meth 100% straight if i goto a smaller pulley =)

50/50, you'll have better luck. Lots of people think 100% is better but its not. I can run better timing with 50/50.

[1iron]

it's real corrosive until mixed with water. I think you need at least 25% water.

[DolSVT00]

it's real corrosive until mixed with water. I think you need at least 25% water.

+1.

And like I said above, there are people that just run water injection only as a detonation preventive.

I've alwayse run it 50/50 or or 60% methanol, it doesn't have to be perfect.

The VP stuff is the most corrosive of them all, ISO HEET at the auto parts store is 99% pure Driggers is 100% with no additives. and Boost juice is around 60/40.

[Carlrx7]

im not trying to surpress detonation, i need more fuel.

[1998ta__1991rs]

what about c16 mix?

[White00gt]

wait what?? Are you 80% duty cycle on injectors? Need more fuel?

You need bigger injectors and or bigger fuel pump and a tune on the ecu for the injectors.

or.:miss:

[chrisheltra]

im not trying to surpress detonation, i need more fuel.

More fuel or more octane?

[1998ta__1991rs]

if you need more fuel you dont need e85 or meth, you need bigger pump and injectors

[1iron]

80%? Thats nothing. Mine go over 100% at the top of 1st and 2nd.

[BAD BOB]

im at 125% at WOT

[1998ta__1991rs]

i want to say mine are at 96% on 13lbs, theyre nowhere near done though, 80% sounds like you have plenty of room to go with them

[BAD BOB]

just get some 160s and be done

[Carlrx7]

well, at 80% duty cycle, anything above that, the fuel pressure drops like a rock, so, yes, i need more pump. but if i use meth, it will richen it up, so i can still get away with the stock pump.

if i have to go into the tank, (NOT FUN on this car) i would have enough pump and fuel, i would just need more octane at that point. hence convert to e85..

-carl

[DolSVT00]

well, at 80% duty cycle, anything above that, the fuel pressure drops like a rock, so, yes, i need more pump. but if i use meth, it will richen it up, so i can still get away with the stock pump.

if i have to go into the tank, (NOT FUN on this car) i would have enough pump and fuel, i would just need more octane at that point. hence convert to e85..

-carl

Don't use it as a band aid, you'll end up getting it wrong one time and hurt something. If you need more pump you need more pump and if your at 80% now to go E85 you need more pump and injector and possibly lines.

[Carlrx7]

Don't use it as a band aid, you'll end up getting it wrong one time and hurt something. If you need more pump you need more pump and if your at 80% now to go E85 you need more pump and injector and possibly lines.

E85 kit includes new pump, fuel basket, lines, injectors, regulator, -8AN feed -6AN return, fuel rails, everything,, but like i said, 3000 bones.

meth kit, band aid, yes, IF i goto a smaller pulley.

[chrisheltra]

I wouldnt even consider a meth kit as a solution to you dilemma.

[1iron]

Have you thought about a Boost-A-Pump. I have no experience but maybe.

[Carlrx7]

Yeah, already running a KB BAP.. =P

[Foose04]

I got an extra KB Bap. Use it to boost your BAP. Should work great..






=/ no warranty implied and god speed!

[Carlrx7]

its the boosta boosta boosta pump yo! haha

[Slow_Esuvee]

alkycontrol.com

[Audie1]

It would depend on the concentration, its an alcohol, so like E85, you cannot figure it by RM/2.

You can use strait water in the same manner as Methanol as long as it is atomized, it will suppress detonation in the CC. Although, not as well as a meth/water mix.

Some of the problems with E85 is fuel system requirements and the amount of extra fuel needed. It also suppresses audible knock, when in fact inaudible knock could be present.

For the OP.

On a blower, I'd do water/methanol you'll get more cooling from it because like E85 as its pressurized it becomes very cold, I'd shoot it pre blower, even though most will say not to because some unknowing nutt huggers will say "noooooooooo it will eat everything up its corrosive and my wiener is small".

All that shit ever did was clean my junk, it aint hurt shit in 3 years and I shoot it on aluminum rotors.

I've been shooting straight Methanol with no water for years, it will make more power and cool your charge air intake better than when it is mixed with water. Not saying that meth/water does not work, IMO straight methanol works better. In climates that are very dry (no humidity) like Arizona, the meth/water mix would be more useful. Here in SC where we have humidity up the yin-yang, the water is not as effective when compared with straight methanol. Also using the meth/water mix lowers the octane rating of the meth. So straight meth will do a better job at keeping detonation at bay. Some folks spray denatured alky, but it does not cool your charge air intake like straight meth does, not to mention that the alky is like 3 to 4 times as expensive as methanol. Methanol trumps E85 when it comes to preventing detonation. I use a progressive methanol controller. I set mine so that it starts spraying at 10# of Boost and maxes out at 25#'s of Boost. Only problem with shooting meth is that if your meth pump fails or you run out of meth when at boost, you can have serious problems. My Meth controller has a low level indicator incorporated in the controller itself, as well as a 3 bar map sensor. So I can safely run 25#'s of boost with 93 octane with zero knock. Soon as I install another shooter then 30# of boost will be no problem when running 93 octane. My shooters are placed after the front mount intercooler right before the TB. To be safe one really needs monitoring devices etc...like air/fuel, a scan master, audible knock detector, EGT monitor etc...things that will give you a little peace of mind. Oh and knowing what the the safe paramitors are for optimal performance, not to mention that knowing them can keep you from hurting your engine. Monitoring these paramitors is especially important for turboed engines, where you can adjust your boost settings. I always try to tune the GN so that it runs as lean as possible while still maintaining zero knock. Running E85 requires larger injectors (to make the same amount of power as you did before you switched over to E85), maybe even a larger fuel pump or a KB Boost a Pump will be required. There will be a noticeable increase in your fuel consumption also. So there are pros and cons to whichever system you use. But the safest thing to do is to run high octane fuel (Race Gas), but that gets expensive real quick as we all know. I know that some of this info was already brought up ........just adding my $.02.