LS 441/442ci N/A Questions

Miker · 10-03-2013, 08:59 PM

I'm about to roll 100k miles on my stock LS2 bottom end so I've been thinking of a 441/2ci LS7 build. I know you guys have way more real world experience then normal internet people so I want some opinions and suggestions. The square 4.125x4.125 setup is the ultimate for a road race setup. Aiming for 11.5:1 or so compression; I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

Planned parts

New LS7 block
RHS Pro Elite LS7 heads (69cc)
Scat 4.125 Stroke Crank (Opinions and suggestions? Motor will always be N/A so can I go light weight?
Scat 4340 H-beam 6.125 rods
Wiseco -2.8cc Pistons
LS7 head gasket
Lunati High RPM Lifters
ARP Head Bolts (Studs are a PITA with the GTO brake booster)
Fast 102
Nick Williams 102
Ported LSA Oil Pump

I need opinions on Valves and Springs.
Will stock rockers with trunion upgrade work? They are light weight and don't seem to fail like the roller rockers do.
How much injector will I need?
I currently am running a comp cams double roller. I have cam signal issues during startup sometime so I need another option.

Cam would be spec'ed by the builder; I trust him.

4l65e would prob turn into a face plated t56 or maybe a PPG converted 1-4 t56 dogbox.

slowgreen99 · 10-03-2013, 09:10 PM

Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowgreen99

Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts.

I'd like to spend less on rockers then my car is worth.

The assembled price on the Mast isn't that bad.

Carlrx7 · 10-03-2013, 09:26 PM

dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues.

I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50.

-Carl

Miker · 10-03-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlrx7

dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues.

I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50.

-Carl

I have all the oiling bugs worked from the front sump GTO pan. It is baffled and I run 7qts of oil. Since day one I have ran 0w-40 Mobil1. It is high zync with out any of the downfalls of racing oil. Currently it handles the heat fine; I don't have an oil cooler yet.

Car currently has a ported LSA pump in it. When I spun the lifter at 75k miles I put in high RPM lifters, a cam, patriot duals, ported the 243 heads, ARP rodbolts/headbolts. It has held together 25k miles so far spending a lot of time bouncing off the rev limiter at 7k.

I want big cubes so I don't have to rev the piss out of it. I just want it to be strong enough to handle it if I do want some RPM.

I've wanted a big N/A build since I saw this car run at CMP.

Carlrx7 · 10-03-2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miker

I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miker

I want big cubes so I don't have to rev the piss out of it. I just want it to be strong enough to handle it if I do want some RPM.

ya lost me. anyways, i dont think the 4L is going to like the 7500 rpms even once

Miker · 10-03-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlrx7

ya lost me. anyways, i dont think the 4L is going to like the 7500 rpms even once

I like RPM; but it would be nice to have epic torque so I don't always have to rev the piss out of it. I currently always rev the piss out of it being a 4speed.

I need more power; the normal FI route would be totally wrong for what I do.

There is a crazy HSV GTO owned by Eddie Tassone (youtube it). He revs 8,000 on a 455ci LSX.

TurboWS6 · 10-04-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miker

I need more power; the normal FI route would be totally wrong for what I do.

I think a blower would be ideal for bringing torque/HP up in your application, centrifugal probably best as they don't tend to run out of steam at high RPMs and there will be no lag time which matters with your type of racing as a added bonus you wont have to deal with all the extra heat under the hood from a turbo system. 7-10 psi with some ARP fastners, forged pistons and it'll make mid 550-600 to the tire any more than that and you wont be able to utilize it in the chassis.

Stroker motors and RPM don't get along. There great for momentary bursts, drag racing, street racing ect, but wont live a long life if you keep the RPM up. With a blower on your LS2 you can have stroker motor torque and the RPM you like, and it will get better fuel mileage than a big cube N/A motor. Spend the money on a good belt system so you don't have issues throwing them and it will be reliable. Run A2W with a heat exchanger and a ice box for track time and heat soak wont be a issue. JMO

Money wise expect to pay around 12K for your stroker
Blower route you can probably get done around 7K

djfury05 · 10-03-2013, 10:01 PM

441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfury05

441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff.

That's what I want to hear.

What do people like crank/rod wise?

Motor stuff is not my thing so I need to hear this stuff.

While short stroke stuff is the norm for road racing stuff there are quite a bit of Camaro/Vette guys with a square setup. They normally rev to like 5,500 tho.

DIGGLER · 10-03-2013, 10:43 PM

de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGGLER

de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

If I purely wanted RPM that would work.

Miker · 10-03-2013, 11:21 PM

Lol at tags.

If bigger braked could fit you know I'd already have em. I have 1mm of clearance currently.

pontiac_boy · 10-03-2013, 11:58 PM

100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

Miker · 10-04-2013, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pontiac_boy

100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

This motor has seen abuse every weekend; it has been starved of oil; it has overheated. But it is a trooper; I want bigger now.

bwelch · 10-04-2013, 02:35 AM

402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain...

Miker · 10-04-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreebeanZ28

402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwelch

402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain...

I ran Adam's GTO once when I just had 3.73s and weight reduction driving to Darlinton and he didn't pull me.

I've never been impressed with a 402/408.

adamcs · 10-04-2013, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miker

I ran Adam's GTO once when I just had 3.73s and weight reduction driving to Darlinton and he didn't pull me.

I've never been impressed with a 402/408.

Everybody is always excited about what they did with my old car when I was On a nitrous tune and had excessive weight in the car lol

GreebeanZ28 · 10-04-2013, 07:25 AM

402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80.

schardbody · 10-04-2013, 08:32 AM

Matt says lt1 swap will get ya done

10-03-2013, 08:59 PM	#1
Miker Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Goose Creek, SC Posts: 811	LS 441/442ci N/A Questions I'm about to roll 100k miles on my stock LS2 bottom end so I've been thinking of a 441/2ci LS7 build. I know you guys have way more real world experience then normal internet people so I want some opinions and suggestions. The square 4.125x4.125 setup is the ultimate for a road race setup. Aiming for 11.5:1 or so compression; I like RPM so even tho it is a torque monster I would like to be able to get at least 7,500 out of it. Planned parts New LS7 block RHS Pro Elite LS7 heads (69cc) Scat 4.125 Stroke Crank (Opinions and suggestions? Motor will always be N/A so can I go light weight? Scat 4340 H-beam 6.125 rods Wiseco -2.8cc Pistons LS7 head gasket Lunati High RPM Lifters ARP Head Bolts (Studs are a PITA with the GTO brake booster) Fast 102 Nick Williams 102 Ported LSA Oil Pump I need opinions on Valves and Springs. Will stock rockers with trunion upgrade work? They are light weight and don't seem to fail like the roller rockers do. How much injector will I need? I currently am running a comp cams double roller. I have cam signal issues during startup sometime so I need another option. Cam would be spec'ed by the builder; I trust him. 4l65e would prob turn into a face plated t56 or maybe a PPG converted 1-4 t56 dogbox. __________________ 06 GTO-aro AutoXer Printing my car's CARFAX uses a lot of toner. Last edited by Miker; 10-03-2013 at 09:01 PM.

10-03-2013, 09:10 PM	#2
slowgreen99 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Summerville Posts: 7,740	Get complete Mast heads and get some Jesel shaft mounts. __________________ M.R.E. Bad Bob Motorsports

10-03-2013, 09:26 PM	#4
Carlrx7 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ladson,SC Posts: 3,813	dont like it, big cubes are not going to like that 7500rpms over and over, overheating issues. I'd refresh the stock LS2, do heads cam fast, zr1 gaskets, and all arp hardware, rod bolts, mains, heads at least. careful with the HV oil pump, i heard it can suck the pan dry if the pan isn't baffled properly. I'd keep the stocker(maybe port/smooth) and just run racing oil. 20w-50. -Carl __________________ Dark Aladdin

10-03-2013, 10:01 PM	#9
djfury05 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Beaufort, SC Posts: 242	441ci with a 4.125" stroke to be used for road racing does not compute to reliability for me. Especially using cheap Scat stuff. __________________ C6Z

10-03-2013, 11:21 PM	#13
Miker Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Goose Creek, SC Posts: 811	Lol at tags. If bigger braked could fit you know I'd already have em. I have 1mm of clearance currently. __________________ 06 GTO-aro AutoXer Printing my car's CARFAX uses a lot of toner.

10-03-2013, 10:43 PM	#11
DIGGLER Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,458	de-stroked LS2 with an ultra lightweight crank/rods/pistons, mast heads, shaftmounts, super victor intake. dry sump.

10-03-2013, 11:58 PM	#14
pontiac_boy Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: North Charelston Posts: 333	100k miles? Time for cam heads and intake.

10-04-2013, 02:35 AM	#16
bwelch Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,774	402 would be way cheaper and would be plenty of power. You could spend more money in valvetrain... __________________

10-04-2013, 07:25 AM	#19
GreebeanZ28 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Easley Posts: 2,300	402 and some trickfliws with hood valvetrain. And a real cam. Or just real heads/cam/intake/valvetrain and a 4l80. __________________

10-04-2013, 08:32 AM	#20
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	Matt says lt1 swap will get ya done