4r70w valvebody mod

schardbody · 07-14-2010, 12:59 PM

just wondering if anyone local knows how to do the "j-mod" to a 4r70w. its basically some new holes in the seperator plate and some springs.

96 mustang GT with a vortech s-trim running 10psi. i'm using sniper to tune and have my shift pressure firmed up that way but thats a band-aid, so i'm looking for someone that knows what they are doing to mod my valvebody for the 350+whp mark i'm seeing.

i'll also be looking into swapping converters pretty soon, dont have anywhere to do it myself right now so any recommendations?

i am right down the street from PT's, but not sure if they do any of this.

LXtasy · 07-14-2010, 01:58 PM

rob aka montec or gerald aka gearmesh

schardbody · 07-14-2010, 05:39 PM

can Rob or Gerald let me know what i'm looking at to get the valve body modded.

i have cash and ready to get it done.....

04ctd · 07-14-2010, 05:49 PM

276-0554 Robert
text him, see if he is busy.

he did my 4r70w, very well pleased.

MonteC · 07-14-2010, 08:22 PM

Gerald and I were looking over the info that Jerry had on the tccoa website. I cant speak for Gerald but Personally some of his stuff i liked, and some of his stuff had me concerned.

He made no mention of the stock PR valve. The stocker i have found is usually well on its way to failure even in a working transmission. Also the holes he describes seem awfully large.

I know Gerald is a big proponent for the transgo hd2 kits, which are great kits.

Im a sonnax man myself, along with other separator plate mods.

stackz · 07-16-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonteC

He made no mention of the stock PR valve. The stocker i have found is usually well on its way to failure even in a working transmission. Also the holes he describes seem awfully large.

is this common across the board for 4r70w transmissions or just related to those behind 4.6 engines? just curious since I put an explorer 4r in my 95 gt. just a junkyard transmission and I have no problems with it but I thought these things were bulletproof compared to aod/e type transmissions?

MonteC · 07-16-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stackz

is this common across the board for 4r70w transmissions or just related to those behind 4.6 engines? just curious since I put an explorer 4r in my 95 gt. just a junkyard transmission and I have no problems with it but I thought these things were bulletproof compared to aod/e type transmissions?

Across the board.

schardbody · 07-14-2010, 08:35 PM

Rob you work at PT's right? i'm right down the street during the work week aswell.

basically i'm looking at prolonging the life of my trans, i know i need a cooler, but i can take care of that. so if i got you to take care of me what am i looking at, should i just stop by the shop and ask for you?

MonteC · 07-14-2010, 09:00 PM

Yeah im inside PT's. I really dont want to step on Geralds toes. If you want to come down i can educate you and show you some things i recommend, we are pretty busy though, i cant guarantee when I could get to it. Definitely talk to Gerald as well, he is a wealth of information, and his schedule might be a little more open than mine.

schardbody · 07-14-2010, 09:49 PM

ever since i increased the shift firmness electronically (with the programmer) i get floppy but hard shifts, occassionally i get a crisp quick shift, but usually its not. and all kinds of flares, sometimes it'll flare 5-6 times before it decides to shift during normal driving. wide open throttle if good.

also it seems like lockup is going in and out at certain speeds while cruising now, only after the programmer.

and could be totally unrelated but worth noting. when cruising at ANY speed with the a/c on lockup will disengage for a second or less then lock back, but only with a/c on. i've verified its the lockup clutch by touching the brake pedal. its done this since i got the car. i've talked to a few people and they say there is a parameter in the tune for TCC slip during compressor cycling that might need changed, or my TCC is just toast and the load of the compressor is causing it to unlock.

any thoughts on any of that?

LXtasy · 07-14-2010, 09:58 PM

Sounds like our torgue converter issues we had. Have you tried the tune you had in prior?

schardbody · 07-14-2010, 10:34 PM

hal, i got this car bone stock about 4 months ago. a month later i put the vortech on along with all supporting mods, tuned it and have been driving it since. initially made 6psi and wasnt happy, so i swapped the pulley, now making 10psi and still not happy, but i still daily drive it.

the month i drove it before the vortech the only thing i noticed was the 3-4 shift shudder. the sniper programming only has "stock", "mild", "firm", and "race" settings for shift firmness. originally i used MILD, and all was good, shifts were descent, then i decided to take it to the track and used FIRM, shifts were very firm and quick, even during normal driving, so i went back to MILD after a couple days. ever since that night at the track i've had the rest of the issues show up. the fluid also turned black that night, but its not burnt at all, so its very possible the TCC material is wiped out. i do plan on putting a converter in it, only problem is i'm on stock gears, and dont want to swap gears until i do valvebody mods. i can afford to do the converter, gears, or valvebody right now, not all together though, and logically doing the valvebody seems like the best decision with the problems im having, but if anyone thinks otherwise i'm willing to listen.

i pretty much think its a converter problem too, but i need a 3500ish stall, and if i do that with stock gears the car will be HORRIBLE right?

i forgot to mention, after going back to MILD the shifts were pretty weak feeling, like stock, so i went back to FIRM, and now it feels nothing like FIRM did before the night at the track.

MonteC · 07-14-2010, 10:53 PM

Personally i wouldnt put a high dollar converter in a used transmission. You really have no idea whats going on inside that unit. 04ctd was still driving his and just complained of a noise, after i tore it down i showed him everything that was bad in it. Just saying. How many miles are on the unit? How many with the supercharger on it?

Also like i mentioned before the pressure regulator valve in the VB wears out on most all of those units. Or you can get slow and dragging valves that do all kinds of weird stuff. When ever i go through a valve body i always take out every single valve and spring, polish each valve bore and flat sand the vb mating surface.

04ctd · 07-14-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonteC

Personally i wouldnt put a high dollar converter in a used transmission. You really have no idea whats going on inside that unit. 04ctd was still driving his and just complained of a noise, after i tore it down i showed him everything that was bad in it. Just saying. How many miles are on the unit? How many with the supercharger on it?

Also like i mentioned before the pressure regulator valve in the VB wears out on most all of those units. Or you can get slow and dragging valves that do all kinds of weird stuff. When ever i go through a valve body i always take out every single valve and spring, polish each valve bore and flat sand the vb mating surface.

i will chime in here, and tell you the probs we had:

very high mileage. (130k+)
HORRIBLY hard shifts. lots of noise (all eng & tranny mounts were broke)
Diablo programmer.

turns out, the guy who tuned the Diablo loaded ALL CUSTOM tunes in it, and the pressures were off the chart.

Robert rebuilt the tranny completely (it was JUNK inside, a time bomb)
replaced a LOT of parts, and showed me all the parts, and took the time to explain WHY i needed the new parts.

and it still shifted horrible, but at least predictably.

Robert finally had me unload the tuner, and THEN we could troubleshoot the hard parts of the tranny.

we got it to shift GREAT without the tuner,

then i had to get ~4 custom tunes (I finally had to send the tuner guy the shift pressure values - they may have come off tccoa) to get the tuner's pressure low enough.

on the 4th tune, the tuner guy got the pressures low enough for the tranny to work properly.

I think Robert gave me a year warranty on it, as long it stayed N/A.

it's AWESOME now. my dad LOVES it.
it RIPS into second gear and turns both tires hard,

and it drives like a Caddy when you just want to cruise around.

I say you can't go wrong with either Robert or Gerald.
Gerald offered to help me out with my truck, a real stand up guy.

gearmesh, inc. · 07-15-2010, 12:52 AM

An electronic shift kit can only go so far. It can't give you any more maximum line pressure than what the factory tune can give you, but it can "inflate" the curve across the midrange up to that point. This has the effect of all your part throttle shifts stiffening up noticeably, but not much change in the feel of your WOT shifts.

When you put a physical shift kit in the valvebody, you get into stiffening up the accumulators with stronger springs and/or travel limiters to give you a firmer shift quality, even at WOT. A handheld tuner or program can't do this. In addition to stiffer accumulator springs and spacers, holes that feed various clutches are opened up some to get a quicker shift engagement, too. In high horsepower applications, I have personally even gone one step beyond the HD-2 Transgo kit instructions by blocking off the accumulators alltogether when used with a higher stall converter. I currently have a customer with a Transgo AOD-HP shift kit in his old style AOD with blocked accumulators and good internals holding 600-650 horse at the flywheel. This is about the limit on pump gas and a production block anyway, and any more horsepower beyond that needs to step up to a Lentech valvebody.

Line pressure can be increased by changing out your EPC solenoid in your 4R70W trans to one from a 5.4 truck. The car EPC solenoid will only take your line pressure up to about 190-200 psi in drive, and the truck one will give you to about 220 psi of clutch and band holding power. I have found that some of the ~ 2000 and up Mustangs have the 5.4 EPC solenoid in them from the factory. If you have a tan or yellow connector one, it is the 5.4 version.

I, like MonteC, am suspect of some of the hole sizes in the separator plate that Jerry's mod calls for. I have customers with the Transgo HD2 shift kit and they are very happy with the way their transmissions shift. Transgo even makes a kick ass shift kit for the GM 4L60-E transmission, too. I have a customer holding 650 horsepower with this shift kit and upgraded internal hard parts. Trust me, Transgo shift kits can hold the power of anything pump gas powered that you can throw at them, considering you upgrade some internal parts in the rotating assembly to support your horsepower level.

schardbody · 07-15-2010, 07:28 AM

Well, the chassis has over 200k on it, motor and trans is unknown but not original. everything was stock until about 2000 miles ago.

I thought about doing a transgo hd2 and even called pt's to get a price but it was a holiday. I'd prefer to leave all the pressure settings stock in the tune so the transgo kit should work fine, I should be near 400hp at the flywheel right now.

schardbody · 07-15-2010, 08:20 AM

Well, the chassis has over 200k on it, motor and trans is unknown but not original. everything was stock until about 2000 miles ago.

I thought about doing a transgo hd2 and even called pt's to get a price but it was a holiday. I'd prefer to leave all the pressure settings stock in the tune so the transgo kit should work fine, I should be near 400hp at the flywheel right now.

schardbody · 07-16-2010, 07:31 AM

So I put all the trans settings back to stock in the tune, didn't make much difference, just softer shifts.

I also realized that everything works perfectly until the a/c is turned on, then it flares before the 3-4 and lockup goes in and out. ONLY with the a/c on though.

Any clue?

04ctd · 07-16-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schardbody

So I put all the trans settings back to stock in the tune, didn't make much difference, just softer shifts.

I also realized that everything works perfectly until the a/c is turned on, then it flares before the 3-4 and lockup goes in and out. ONLY with the a/c on though.

Any clue?

i would get on the mustang forums and ask:
http://www.carolinarides.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=23

my dads 99's AC is intermittent as well, LMK what you find out.

the AC guy siad the car has poor ground from motor to body.

the CRUISE and the AC can't be on at the same time.

schardbody · 07-16-2010, 10:51 AM

My a/c works perfectly, as does cruise. Its just that when the a/c is on the TCC either slips or unlocks for a second during cruise. Say I'm cruising in OD at 2400rpm with the a/c on out the blue it'll jump up to 2800rpm for almost exactly one second then you feel it lock back up.

I can drive all day with the a/c off and have no issue at all.

I guess I could datalog and see if its being commanded to do so but not sure if that would help. If needed let me know what to watch and I'll take my Snapon scanner for a ride.

07-14-2010, 12:59 PM	#1
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	4r70w valvebody mod just wondering if anyone local knows how to do the "j-mod" to a 4r70w. its basically some new holes in the seperator plate and some springs. 96 mustang GT with a vortech s-trim running 10psi. i'm using sniper to tune and have my shift pressure firmed up that way but thats a band-aid, so i'm looking for someone that knows what they are doing to mod my valvebody for the 350+whp mark i'm seeing. i'll also be looking into swapping converters pretty soon, dont have anywhere to do it myself right now so any recommendations? i am right down the street from PT's, but not sure if they do any of this.

07-14-2010, 01:58 PM	#2
LXtasy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 9,564	rob aka montec or gerald aka gearmesh __________________

07-14-2010, 05:49 PM	#4
04ctd Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ladson SC Posts: 4,388	276-0554 Robert text him, see if he is busy. he did my 4r70w, very well pleased. __________________ 1 Timothy 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

07-14-2010, 09:58 PM	#11
LXtasy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 9,564	Sounds like our torgue converter issues we had. Have you tried the tune you had in prior? __________________

07-14-2010, 10:53 PM	#13
MonteC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Summerville Posts: 4,431	Personally i wouldnt put a high dollar converter in a used transmission. You really have no idea whats going on inside that unit. 04ctd was still driving his and just complained of a noise, after i tore it down i showed him everything that was bad in it. Just saying. How many miles are on the unit? How many with the supercharger on it? Also like i mentioned before the pressure regulator valve in the VB wears out on most all of those units. Or you can get slow and dragging valves that do all kinds of weird stuff. When ever i go through a valve body i always take out every single valve and spring, polish each valve bore and flat sand the vb mating surface. Last edited by MonteC; 07-14-2010 at 10:56 PM.

07-14-2010, 05:39 PM	#3
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	can Rob or Gerald let me know what i'm looking at to get the valve body modded. i have cash and ready to get it done.....

07-14-2010, 08:22 PM	#5
MonteC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Summerville Posts: 4,431	Gerald and I were looking over the info that Jerry had on the tccoa website. I cant speak for Gerald but Personally some of his stuff i liked, and some of his stuff had me concerned. He made no mention of the stock PR valve. The stocker i have found is usually well on its way to failure even in a working transmission. Also the holes he describes seem awfully large. I know Gerald is a big proponent for the transgo hd2 kits, which are great kits. Im a sonnax man myself, along with other separator plate mods.

07-14-2010, 08:35 PM	#8
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	Rob you work at PT's right? i'm right down the street during the work week aswell. basically i'm looking at prolonging the life of my trans, i know i need a cooler, but i can take care of that. so if i got you to take care of me what am i looking at, should i just stop by the shop and ask for you?

07-14-2010, 09:00 PM	#9
MonteC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Summerville Posts: 4,431	Yeah im inside PT's. I really dont want to step on Geralds toes. If you want to come down i can educate you and show you some things i recommend, we are pretty busy though, i cant guarantee when I could get to it. Definitely talk to Gerald as well, he is a wealth of information, and his schedule might be a little more open than mine.

07-14-2010, 09:49 PM	#10
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	ever since i increased the shift firmness electronically (with the programmer) i get floppy but hard shifts, occassionally i get a crisp quick shift, but usually its not. and all kinds of flares, sometimes it'll flare 5-6 times before it decides to shift during normal driving. wide open throttle if good. also it seems like lockup is going in and out at certain speeds while cruising now, only after the programmer. and could be totally unrelated but worth noting. when cruising at ANY speed with the a/c on lockup will disengage for a second or less then lock back, but only with a/c on. i've verified its the lockup clutch by touching the brake pedal. its done this since i got the car. i've talked to a few people and they say there is a parameter in the tune for TCC slip during compressor cycling that might need changed, or my TCC is just toast and the load of the compressor is causing it to unlock. any thoughts on any of that?

07-14-2010, 10:34 PM	#12
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	hal, i got this car bone stock about 4 months ago. a month later i put the vortech on along with all supporting mods, tuned it and have been driving it since. initially made 6psi and wasnt happy, so i swapped the pulley, now making 10psi and still not happy, but i still daily drive it. the month i drove it before the vortech the only thing i noticed was the 3-4 shift shudder. the sniper programming only has "stock", "mild", "firm", and "race" settings for shift firmness. originally i used MILD, and all was good, shifts were descent, then i decided to take it to the track and used FIRM, shifts were very firm and quick, even during normal driving, so i went back to MILD after a couple days. ever since that night at the track i've had the rest of the issues show up. the fluid also turned black that night, but its not burnt at all, so its very possible the TCC material is wiped out. i do plan on putting a converter in it, only problem is i'm on stock gears, and dont want to swap gears until i do valvebody mods. i can afford to do the converter, gears, or valvebody right now, not all together though, and logically doing the valvebody seems like the best decision with the problems im having, but if anyone thinks otherwise i'm willing to listen. i pretty much think its a converter problem too, but i need a 3500ish stall, and if i do that with stock gears the car will be HORRIBLE right? i forgot to mention, after going back to MILD the shifts were pretty weak feeling, like stock, so i went back to FIRM, and now it feels nothing like FIRM did before the night at the track.

07-15-2010, 12:52 AM	#15
gearmesh, inc. creepy azz cracka Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Summerville Posts: 1,587	An electronic shift kit can only go so far. It can't give you any more maximum line pressure than what the factory tune can give you, but it can "inflate" the curve across the midrange up to that point. This has the effect of all your part throttle shifts stiffening up noticeably, but not much change in the feel of your WOT shifts. When you put a physical shift kit in the valvebody, you get into stiffening up the accumulators with stronger springs and/or travel limiters to give you a firmer shift quality, even at WOT. A handheld tuner or program can't do this. In addition to stiffer accumulator springs and spacers, holes that feed various clutches are opened up some to get a quicker shift engagement, too. In high horsepower applications, I have personally even gone one step beyond the HD-2 Transgo kit instructions by blocking off the accumulators alltogether when used with a higher stall converter. I currently have a customer with a Transgo AOD-HP shift kit in his old style AOD with blocked accumulators and good internals holding 600-650 horse at the flywheel. This is about the limit on pump gas and a production block anyway, and any more horsepower beyond that needs to step up to a Lentech valvebody. Line pressure can be increased by changing out your EPC solenoid in your 4R70W trans to one from a 5.4 truck. The car EPC solenoid will only take your line pressure up to about 190-200 psi in drive, and the truck one will give you to about 220 psi of clutch and band holding power. I have found that some of the ~ 2000 and up Mustangs have the 5.4 EPC solenoid in them from the factory. If you have a tan or yellow connector one, it is the 5.4 version. I, like MonteC, am suspect of some of the hole sizes in the separator plate that Jerry's mod calls for. I have customers with the Transgo HD2 shift kit and they are very happy with the way their transmissions shift. Transgo even makes a kick ass shift kit for the GM 4L60-E transmission, too. I have a customer holding 650 horsepower with this shift kit and upgraded internal hard parts. Trust me, Transgo shift kits can hold the power of anything pump gas powered that you can throw at them, considering you upgrade some internal parts in the rotating assembly to support your horsepower level. __________________ "I came into this world kicking, screaming,and covered in someone else's blood, I have no problem leaving the same way!" ÔÇ£If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. ThatÔÇÖs ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?ÔÇØ -Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch.

07-15-2010, 07:28 AM	#16
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	Well, the chassis has over 200k on it, motor and trans is unknown but not original. everything was stock until about 2000 miles ago. I thought about doing a transgo hd2 and even called pt's to get a price but it was a holiday. I'd prefer to leave all the pressure settings stock in the tune so the transgo kit should work fine, I should be near 400hp at the flywheel right now.

07-15-2010, 08:20 AM	#17
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	Well, the chassis has over 200k on it, motor and trans is unknown but not original. everything was stock until about 2000 miles ago. I thought about doing a transgo hd2 and even called pt's to get a price but it was a holiday. I'd prefer to leave all the pressure settings stock in the tune so the transgo kit should work fine, I should be near 400hp at the flywheel right now.

07-16-2010, 07:31 AM	#18
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	So I put all the trans settings back to stock in the tune, didn't make much difference, just softer shifts. I also realized that everything works perfectly until the a/c is turned on, then it flares before the 3-4 and lockup goes in and out. ONLY with the a/c on though. Any clue?

07-16-2010, 10:51 AM	#20
schardbody Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,158	My a/c works perfectly, as does cruise. Its just that when the a/c is on the TCC either slips or unlocks for a second during cruise. Say I'm cruising in OD at 2400rpm with the a/c on out the blue it'll jump up to 2800rpm for almost exactly one second then you feel it lock back up. I can drive all day with the a/c off and have no issue at all. I guess I could datalog and see if its being commanded to do so but not sure if that would help. If needed let me know what to watch and I'll take my Snapon scanner for a ride.