JohnnyP

chrisheltra · 01-05-2008, 10:04 AM

There are a few questions in this thread that seemed to go unanswered can you shed some light?

http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/gen-2-li...-ignition.html

I dont recommend answering them on that site unles you are a SV b/c BigD will give ya the boot. This is probably the best place to do so.

JohnnyP · 01-05-2008, 11:28 AM

Chris:

bigD made me change my screen name and profile.

I answered a bunch of questions on the modford Lightning forum:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=88805

Talked to all the SoCal tuners, they seem interested over the phone, but won't schedule a demo.

pm'd a couple local guys about a test drive, not interested, even with dealer pricing.

JJ hasn't responded since October. Gave up on James. He sat on his for five weeks, so I recalled it.

Every one is afraid of knock, but they are more afraid to try it.

I jumped in on a "what piston to buy" thread:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ht=#post977808

Richard Head · 01-05-2008, 11:06 PM

I do not understand the reasoning behind a lot of the questions/concerns of the posters in the threads I read.
Hell, we all know there are no guarantees.
Spend a crap load of money for mods, no prob, spend 650 protect your motor from destruction :cry1

Richard Head · 01-05-2008, 11:18 PM

: JohnnyP,
Is there a way to view the install and set up instructions on-line, specifically how to adjust/set up the user controls.

JohnnyP · 01-06-2008, 12:47 AM

Scored second place and took home $30 in the local nine ball event today. arg, could have split the pot with the winner, but my buddy said grow a pair and play him. Winner took home $58.

ok, I'll put the installation instructions on the Vampire page.

JohnnyP · 01-06-2008, 01:07 PM

Added the text of the installation to the Vampire page:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/Vampir...S_Vampire.html

JJ@WMS just pm'd me, saying his two L's are down for mods for a while, but he may test it on a customer's truck that is coming in for heads and cams on a stock bottom end.

There seems to be a lot of interest in special coils, with the promise of increased spark energy.

The Vampire increases spark energy when retarding, because it extends dwell by the retard amount.

The equation for energy stored in the coil is:

E = 1/2 L *I * I

"L" is the inductance of the coil primary. "I" is the current flowing in the coil at spark time. Both of these can be measured, but for a given coil, inductance is constant, so we can ignore the L/2 term of the equation for this discussion.

With a stock dwell setting of 1.8 msec, a stock coil will achieve 6 amps of coil current. Note that the coil current ramps up, like a sawtooth. Zero current at start of dwell, increasing linearly with time.

For example, say the Vampire is retarding 10??. At 3000 RPM, 10?? is about half a millisecond (0.555). Add this to the stock dwell value of 1.8 msec, total dwell equals 2.355 msec, and the coil current will reach 7.8 Amps at spark time.

(7.8)/6 =1.3, or a 30% increase in coil current.

The energy equation says E goes up with the square of the current, so 1.3 * 1.3 = 1.69, or a 69% increase in energy stored in the coil.

At 6000 RPM, 10?? retard increases the current to 6.9 amps, resulting in 32% increase in coil energy.

For 1?? retard at 6000 RPM, dwell increases to 1.827 msec, current would increase from the stock value of 6 Amps to 6.09 Amps. 6.09/6=1.015, square this results in 1.03, or a 3% increase in coil energy.

For 2?? retard at 6000 RPM, current would increase to 6.18 A. 6.18/6=1.03, squared results in 6.2% increase in energy.

For 3?? retard at 6000 RPM, current would increase to 6.28 A. 6.28/6=1.046, squared results in 9.6% increase in energy.

This increased energy is stored in the magnetic field of the coil. When the field collapses at spark time, the energy is transferred to the plug.

This may seem small when compared to claims made by some coil manufacturers, but it's measurable. It's repeatable. I can take scope photos of it. I can hear the arc intensity increase in my pressurized spark chamber.

The Vampire IS an ignition amplifier when retarding.

Richard Head · 01-06-2008, 09:04 PM

Congratulations on second place. Thank you for adding the instructions, will read and try to digest info over the next day or so.

Richard Head · 01-08-2008, 08:13 PM

A few questions if you don't mind
1. How is it that your unit is unaffected by the blower noise or back ground noise that Ford was unable or unwilling to get around to use the knock system?
2. When it starts to retard the timing and kills the spark for two revaluations wont that make the engine loose power?
3. In the killed cylinder what happens to the un-burnt fuel that is injected?
4. Does it matter if you tap into the pos or neg side of the coil wires?
If these are stupid questions please forgive me.

Mike · 01-08-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Head

A few questions if you don't mind
1. How is it that your unit is unaffected by the blower noise or back ground noise that Ford was unable or unwilling to get around to use the knock system?
2. When it starts to retard the timing and kills the spark for two revaluations wont that make the engine loose power?
3. In the killed cylinder what happens to the un-burnt fuel that is injected?
4. Does it matter if you tap into the pos or neg side of the coil wires?
If these are stupid questions please forgive me.

Question #1: This my biggest concern with this product. Hopefully JJ will get some testing done.

I haven't talked to JohnnyP about this, but from reading about the vampire it almost seems that it has a "learning" feature. If it detects knock it retards the timing in each cylinder until it figures out which cylinder was knocking. In essence the knock sensor doesn't know which cylinder is knocking, but from trial & error the Vampire figures it out. I might be totally off basis on this, hopefully Johnny will chime in and set me straight.

Question #2 I didn't think it killed the spark for any revolutions, I thought it just retarded a few degrees. Bill where did you read that it killed the spark? I must of missed it.

JohnnyP · 01-11-2008, 12:34 AM

Sorry for not replying earlier. My computer died a few days ago, and I'm just now getting back on line.

Have not tested it on a Lightning. Posted a thread on modfords asking for a SoCal test vehicle, but no offers.

Several recent installs on Mustangs, no complaints of "blower noise" or other background noise false triggering the system.

As Mike said, the system is a retard box. It doesn't kill the spark, so there is no unburnt fuel.

Using a tuning tool, retarding timing one degree might cause a loss of 12-20 hp or so. If the Vampire retards one of the cylinders by one degree, the drop should be 1/8 that number.

The system must tap into the coil negative wire. It retards timing by extending the dwell, at the coil negative.

JohnnyP · 01-12-2008, 09:31 AM

Mike:

The unit knows that the knocking cylinder is the one that just fired. Software keeps track, and when that cylinder is ready to fire again, dials in the calculated amount of retard.

The system retards one, two, or three increments per knock event, depending on knock intensity, up to a max of ten counts. In the ten degree range (S1 down), each count is one degree. Double this for the twenty degree range.

At 5000 RPM, one engine cycle is 24 msec, so the system could retard the knocking cylinder(s) nine counts in less than 1/10th of a second.

Normal human reaction time is about 300 msec.

JohnnyP · 01-15-2008, 01:15 AM

Someone mentioned the Subie guys on the dyno day thread. We sold lots of these to the Subie guys in the late '90's. Not so much after '01 or so. Standalones and laptop programmable piggybacks got us. Give a guy a keyboard and he can control the world.

JohnnyP · 01-18-2008, 06:23 PM

svt L forum: Boom! it went.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...d.php?t=452177

What's it cost for a rebuild? $5k minimum?

It doesn't have to be this way. J&S SafeGuard seems like a no brainer to me.

Someone with a 17psi KB (not an L) emailed me last night, saying he thinks he toasted a piston returning home from a long trip. Said all he could get was 91 octane. He's now planning a rebuild to make 800 hp and estimates it's a $10k deal. Still deciding whether or not to spring for the J&S.

NLOC is aware of the product, thanks to Mike, but only one small thread. SVT has their heads in the sand.

Don't know what's up with the modford guys, where I'm a supporting vendor. Close to 2500 page views on my L thread, but none installed on an L.

So, basically, everyone is waiting for JJ@Woodbine to evaluate the loaner he's been sitting on since October?

Kind of reminds me of an old cartoon I used to see on Saturday mornings (as a kid in the 50's), about the cat and the bell. "Who will bell the cat?" based on an Aesop's fable. The mice decide to put a bell around the cat's neck as a warning device but then can find no one among them who will actually do it.

Is everyone a follower? Are there no leaders? What are you risking?

What are you waiting for?

chrisheltra · 01-18-2008, 08:10 PM

Well I for one like your product. Am I willing to be the guinea pig probably not. Some SV on NLOC make claims that they have the latest and greatest in heads and ported blowers (just to name the recent ones) before they give any specs, dyno proven power gains or explain the added benefits. Few people are willing to spend there hard earned money on something thats not proven on there particular vehicle with out proof and data. A vehicle for some that means everything to them. With your product being so new to the L comunity most people expect you to prove to them that they need or should have your product.

My suggestion to you is to find someone local. Preferrably a well established poster on NLOC or SVTP and pay them to use there truck to test your product out on. Giving detailed information and results after everything is done.

Am I saying that your product doesnt work? Hell no! I would like to see someone use it to see if it would prevent blown motors. Unfortuantly you might have to do the first L at your own expence. Anyways I look forward to seeing some good info from you in the future.

JohnnyP · 01-18-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

With your product being so new to the L comunity most people expect you to prove to them that they need or should have your product.

Chris: That's why I started my grim reaper thread. Lightning owners are all deathly afraid of detonation, for good reason.

In the seventeen years we have been making SafeGuards, we have always offered a 30 day trial period with reasonable restocking fee, and one year fix or replace warranty.

Out of the thousands sold, we have had only one refund request due to engine noise. Another request was from an old timer who couldn't figure out how to wire it up. The last request was a few years ago. The guy was killed in a car wreck before he installed his J&S. His widow asked for a refund. That's a pretty good track record.

I went through this with the Mitsubishi 3000 twin turbo guys. Talked about if for four years on the 3si.org forum, described the principles of operation, drew them a wiring diagram, and the most common reply was "Yeah, but will it work on OUR cars?" By the time I gave up on them, they were installing the Greddy emanage controller, and Greddy didn't pay them to try it.

As a designer, I don't understand the need to prove it works on every make of car. An engine is an engine.

Prove me wrong.

chrisheltra · 01-18-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Quote:

With your product being so new to the L comunity most people expect you to prove to them that they need or should have your product.

Prove me wrong.

Im not here to prove you wrong thats not my intentions at all. You know way more about this stuff than I do. Im very interested in it just a little apprehensive seeing as though the truck is my DD. And thinking more about it now I may be intersted in being a L guinea pig. If it works as well as you say it does it definatly would benefit me considering Im still on stock internals.

Unfortunatly if I was to use it Im not as widley known in the L community as others. So if I was to endorse it not many would listen. Not to mention I would probably get banned from NLOC by BigD for promoting a non-SV's products lol.

JohnnyP · 01-19-2008, 01:07 AM

Chris:

bigD frowns on test reports of non vendor items? Chicken and egg thing. It takes money to buy ads. I've always thought a site owner should allow a new product announcement. I mean new, not rehashed. Thanks again, Mike. This is a great opportunity for a small manufacturer.

A common comment from users is "It SEEMS to be working."

Shirley and I went for a test ride with one of our first installs, in the early nineties. The driver was on and off the throttle, but the engine didn't audibly ping. Every time he was on the throttle, the knock retard bargraph would light up like a Christmas tree, and all the owner could say was "It SEEMS to be working." Meanwhile, Shirley and I are thinking, "Wow, this sucker REALLY WORKS."

It's easy to prove it doesn't work. If it is always detecting false knock, or if the engine audibly pings or blows up without warning, you could say it doesn't work. If it doesn't blow, you could say "Well, it hasn't blown yet, but it still might."

Without sophisticated instrumentation, it's hard to prove that it works, but try taking one away from a guy that has been running it for a while.

One of my first installs was a new Corvette with a 5psi Paxton kit, with no intercooler.

A couple weeks later, the owner brought it by, on his way to show it to the editor of Turbo Magazine. We drove down in separate cars. The editor took it for a spin with the owner riding along.

After the ride was over and the owner left, I asked the editor what he thought. He said "It's just another 'Vette with a Paxton kit." He wasn't there for the pre-install ride, where it was pinging like a beotch. He and I had "differences". To this day, we have not had a review in Turbo Magazine.

By the way, has anyone read the testimonials?
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/SafeGu...timonials.html

wade w · 01-19-2008, 03:24 AM

I have stayed out of this because my truck is about stock and I plan on
keeping it that way. But I went and looked at the instructions just to see.
I have to tell you I didnt like the #14 senitivity adjust part. First it didnt make mutch sense. It basicly said to put it under a light load to adjust it. how is it going to pick up knock under a light load. Second it said to adjust to just low enough to were you could not hear it knock. Spark knock happens before you can hear it. If you hear it. damage has already started to acour. And 1 other thing. It says that it knows witch one is knocking by the last one that fired. knock happens before the plug
fires. Thats why they call it pre det. But I could see were that part would still work. Im not saying that your product would not help. But I am saying it will not prevent knock. Just because it has to knock some for it to work. Tell me Im wrong.

Mike · 01-19-2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade w

And 1 other thing. It says that it knows witch one is knocking by the last one that fired. knock happens before the plug
fires. Thats why they call it pre det. But I could see were that part would still work. Im not saying that your product would not help. But I am saying it will not prevent knock. Just because it has to knock some for it to work. Tell me Im wrong.

I don't think that's entirely true Wade.

Pre-Ignition and Detonation are 2 different occurrences.

Pre-ignition like you said is before the spark, and almost always destroys the motor.

Detonation happens after the spark, and most motors (<1.5hp per cui) can live with a little detonation.

JohnnyP · 01-19-2008, 05:18 AM

Wade:

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. The idea is to adjust it at a load point where you know there is no knock. For example, 0psi on the highway.

The reason for doing this under some (light) load is that engines make more noise when they are not loaded, such as when free revving, or in decel. The engine actually gets quieter as you load it.

Note that the unit has an onboard MAP sensor. This is for the boost retard function, plus the detector is turned off with more than 5" vacuum, to prevent false detections on decel and light loads. We recommend temporarily disconnecting the manifold line from the unit while adjusting the sensitivity. This forces the unit to see 0 psi, enabling the detector.

While cruising on the freeway, gradually increase the sensitivity until the unit just starts to detect ENGINE NOISE, then back it off slightly. This sets the unit to max sensitivity without detecting false knock. The unit will now respond to inaudible knock when you load the engine.

After setting the sensitivity, but with the vacuum line still disconnected, lift throttle, to test for false knock on decel. If there are no detections on decel, and you do not wish to use the boost retard function, you may leave the vacuum line disconnected.

If there is some false knock on decel, but you don't wish to use boost retard, connect the vacuum line but turn the boost retard "Rate" knob to zero.

Note that RPM must be above 1750 to enable the detector and any retard feature.

01-05-2008, 10:04 AM	#1
chrisheltra Neo is Jesus Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 13,265	JohnnyP There are a few questions in this thread that seemed to go unanswered can you shed some light? http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/gen-2-li...-ignition.html I dont recommend answering them on that site unles you are a SV b/c BigD will give ya the boot. This is probably the best place to do so. __________________ Gap A Hoe Racing

01-05-2008, 11:28 AM	#2
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Chris: bigD made me change my screen name and profile. I answered a bunch of questions on the modford Lightning forum: http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=88805 Talked to all the SoCal tuners, they seem interested over the phone, but won't schedule a demo. pm'd a couple local guys about a test drive, not interested, even with dealer pricing. JJ hasn't responded since October. Gave up on James. He sat on his for five weeks, so I recalled it. Every one is afraid of knock, but they are more afraid to try it. I jumped in on a "what piston to buy" thread: http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ht=#post977808

01-05-2008, 11:06 PM	#3
Richard Head Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 788	I do not understand the reasoning behind a lot of the questions/concerns of the posters in the threads I read. Hell, we all know there are no guarantees. Spend a crap load of money for mods, no prob, spend 650 protect your motor from destruction :cry1

01-05-2008, 11:18 PM	#4
Richard Head Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 788	: JohnnyP, Is there a way to view the install and set up instructions on-line, specifically how to adjust/set up the user controls.

01-06-2008, 12:47 AM	#5
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Scored second place and took home $30 in the local nine ball event today. arg, could have split the pot with the winner, but my buddy said grow a pair and play him. Winner took home $58. ok, I'll put the installation instructions on the Vampire page.

01-06-2008, 01:07 PM	#6
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Added the text of the installation to the Vampire page: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/Vampir...S_Vampire.html JJ@WMS just pm'd me, saying his two L's are down for mods for a while, but he may test it on a customer's truck that is coming in for heads and cams on a stock bottom end. There seems to be a lot of interest in special coils, with the promise of increased spark energy. The Vampire increases spark energy when retarding, because it extends dwell by the retard amount. The equation for energy stored in the coil is: E = 1/2 L I I "L" is the inductance of the coil primary. "I" is the current flowing in the coil at spark time. Both of these can be measured, but for a given coil, inductance is constant, so we can ignore the L/2 term of the equation for this discussion. With a stock dwell setting of 1.8 msec, a stock coil will achieve 6 amps of coil current. Note that the coil current ramps up, like a sawtooth. Zero current at start of dwell, increasing linearly with time. For example, say the Vampire is retarding 10??. At 3000 RPM, 10?? is about half a millisecond (0.555). Add this to the stock dwell value of 1.8 msec, total dwell equals 2.355 msec, and the coil current will reach 7.8 Amps at spark time. (7.8)/6 =1.3, or a 30% increase in coil current. The energy equation says E goes up with the square of the current, so 1.3 * 1.3 = 1.69, or a 69% increase in energy stored in the coil. At 6000 RPM, 10?? retard increases the current to 6.9 amps, resulting in 32% increase in coil energy. For 1?? retard at 6000 RPM, dwell increases to 1.827 msec, current would increase from the stock value of 6 Amps to 6.09 Amps. 6.09/6=1.015, square this results in 1.03, or a 3% increase in coil energy. For 2?? retard at 6000 RPM, current would increase to 6.18 A. 6.18/6=1.03, squared results in 6.2% increase in energy. For 3?? retard at 6000 RPM, current would increase to 6.28 A. 6.28/6=1.046, squared results in 9.6% increase in energy. This increased energy is stored in the magnetic field of the coil. When the field collapses at spark time, the energy is transferred to the plug. This may seem small when compared to claims made by some coil manufacturers, but it's measurable. It's repeatable. I can take scope photos of it. I can hear the arc intensity increase in my pressurized spark chamber. The Vampire IS an ignition amplifier when retarding.

01-06-2008, 09:04 PM	#7
Richard Head Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 788	Congratulations on second place. Thank you for adding the instructions, will read and try to digest info over the next day or so.

01-08-2008, 08:13 PM	#8
Richard Head Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 788	A few questions if you don't mind 1. How is it that your unit is unaffected by the blower noise or back ground noise that Ford was unable or unwilling to get around to use the knock system? 2. When it starts to retard the timing and kills the spark for two revaluations wont that make the engine loose power? 3. In the killed cylinder what happens to the un-burnt fuel that is injected? 4. Does it matter if you tap into the pos or neg side of the coil wires? If these are stupid questions please forgive me.

01-11-2008, 12:34 AM	#10
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Sorry for not replying earlier. My computer died a few days ago, and I'm just now getting back on line. Have not tested it on a Lightning. Posted a thread on modfords asking for a SoCal test vehicle, but no offers. Several recent installs on Mustangs, no complaints of "blower noise" or other background noise false triggering the system. As Mike said, the system is a retard box. It doesn't kill the spark, so there is no unburnt fuel. Using a tuning tool, retarding timing one degree might cause a loss of 12-20 hp or so. If the Vampire retards one of the cylinders by one degree, the drop should be 1/8 that number. The system must tap into the coil negative wire. It retards timing by extending the dwell, at the coil negative.

01-12-2008, 09:31 AM	#11
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Mike: The unit knows that the knocking cylinder is the one that just fired. Software keeps track, and when that cylinder is ready to fire again, dials in the calculated amount of retard. The system retards one, two, or three increments per knock event, depending on knock intensity, up to a max of ten counts. In the ten degree range (S1 down), each count is one degree. Double this for the twenty degree range. At 5000 RPM, one engine cycle is 24 msec, so the system could retard the knocking cylinder(s) nine counts in less than 1/10th of a second. Normal human reaction time is about 300 msec.

01-15-2008, 01:15 AM	#12
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Someone mentioned the Subie guys on the dyno day thread. We sold lots of these to the Subie guys in the late '90's. Not so much after '01 or so. Standalones and laptop programmable piggybacks got us. Give a guy a keyboard and he can control the world.

01-18-2008, 06:23 PM	#13
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	svt L forum: Boom! it went. http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...d.php?t=452177 What's it cost for a rebuild? $5k minimum? It doesn't have to be this way. J&S SafeGuard seems like a no brainer to me. Someone with a 17psi KB (not an L) emailed me last night, saying he thinks he toasted a piston returning home from a long trip. Said all he could get was 91 octane. He's now planning a rebuild to make 800 hp and estimates it's a $10k deal. Still deciding whether or not to spring for the J&S. NLOC is aware of the product, thanks to Mike, but only one small thread. SVT has their heads in the sand. Don't know what's up with the modford guys, where I'm a supporting vendor. Close to 2500 page views on my L thread, but none installed on an L. So, basically, everyone is waiting for JJ@Woodbine to evaluate the loaner he's been sitting on since October? Kind of reminds me of an old cartoon I used to see on Saturday mornings (as a kid in the 50's), about the cat and the bell. "Who will bell the cat?" based on an Aesop's fable. The mice decide to put a bell around the cat's neck as a warning device but then can find no one among them who will actually do it. Is everyone a follower? Are there no leaders? What are you risking? What are you waiting for?

01-18-2008, 08:10 PM	#14
chrisheltra Neo is Jesus Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 13,265	Well I for one like your product. Am I willing to be the guinea pig probably not. Some SV on NLOC make claims that they have the latest and greatest in heads and ported blowers (just to name the recent ones) before they give any specs, dyno proven power gains or explain the added benefits. Few people are willing to spend there hard earned money on something thats not proven on there particular vehicle with out proof and data. A vehicle for some that means everything to them. With your product being so new to the L comunity most people expect you to prove to them that they need or should have your product. My suggestion to you is to find someone local. Preferrably a well established poster on NLOC or SVTP and pay them to use there truck to test your product out on. Giving detailed information and results after everything is done. Am I saying that your product doesnt work? Hell no! I would like to see someone use it to see if it would prevent blown motors. Unfortuantly you might have to do the first L at your own expence. Anyways I look forward to seeing some good info from you in the future. __________________ Gap A Hoe Racing

01-19-2008, 01:07 AM	#17
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Chris: bigD frowns on test reports of non vendor items? Chicken and egg thing. It takes money to buy ads. I've always thought a site owner should allow a new product announcement. I mean new, not rehashed. Thanks again, Mike. This is a great opportunity for a small manufacturer. A common comment from users is "It SEEMS to be working." Shirley and I went for a test ride with one of our first installs, in the early nineties. The driver was on and off the throttle, but the engine didn't audibly ping. Every time he was on the throttle, the knock retard bargraph would light up like a Christmas tree, and all the owner could say was "It SEEMS to be working." Meanwhile, Shirley and I are thinking, "Wow, this sucker REALLY WORKS." It's easy to prove it doesn't work. If it is always detecting false knock, or if the engine audibly pings or blows up without warning, you could say it doesn't work. If it doesn't blow, you could say "Well, it hasn't blown yet, but it still might." Without sophisticated instrumentation, it's hard to prove that it works, but try taking one away from a guy that has been running it for a while. One of my first installs was a new Corvette with a 5psi Paxton kit, with no intercooler. A couple weeks later, the owner brought it by, on his way to show it to the editor of Turbo Magazine. We drove down in separate cars. The editor took it for a spin with the owner riding along. After the ride was over and the owner left, I asked the editor what he thought. He said "It's just another 'Vette with a Paxton kit." He wasn't there for the pre-install ride, where it was pinging like a beotch. He and I had "differences". To this day, we have not had a review in Turbo Magazine. By the way, has anyone read the testimonials? http://www.jandssafeguard.com/SafeGu...timonials.html

01-19-2008, 03:24 AM	#18
wade w Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Savannah GA Posts: 1,725	I have stayed out of this because my truck is about stock and I plan on keeping it that way. But I went and looked at the instructions just to see. I have to tell you I didnt like the #14 senitivity adjust part. First it didnt make mutch sense. It basicly said to put it under a light load to adjust it. how is it going to pick up knock under a light load. Second it said to adjust to just low enough to were you could not hear it knock. Spark knock happens before you can hear it. If you hear it. damage has already started to acour. And 1 other thing. It says that it knows witch one is knocking by the last one that fired. knock happens before the plug fires. Thats why they call it pre det. But I could see were that part would still work. Im not saying that your product would not help. But I am saying it will not prevent knock. Just because it has to knock some for it to work. Tell me Im wrong.

01-19-2008, 05:18 AM	#20
JohnnyP Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 35	Wade: Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. The idea is to adjust it at a load point where you know there is no knock. For example, 0psi on the highway. The reason for doing this under some (light) load is that engines make more noise when they are not loaded, such as when free revving, or in decel. The engine actually gets quieter as you load it. Note that the unit has an onboard MAP sensor. This is for the boost retard function, plus the detector is turned off with more than 5" vacuum, to prevent false detections on decel and light loads. We recommend temporarily disconnecting the manifold line from the unit while adjusting the sensitivity. This forces the unit to see 0 psi, enabling the detector. While cruising on the freeway, gradually increase the sensitivity until the unit just starts to detect ENGINE NOISE, then back it off slightly. This sets the unit to max sensitivity without detecting false knock. The unit will now respond to inaudible knock when you load the engine. After setting the sensitivity, but with the vacuum line still disconnected, lift throttle, to test for false knock on decel. If there are no detections on decel, and you do not wish to use the boost retard function, you may leave the vacuum line disconnected. If there is some false knock on decel, but you don't wish to use boost retard, connect the vacuum line but turn the boost retard "Rate" knob to zero. Note that RPM must be above 1750 to enable the detector and any retard feature.