Good News for the economy

[Whaler]

Originally Posted by Mike

no the dealers cannot be happy according to Larry. I don't believe you.

Let me Poll a few local dealers to find out my self, I can't believe my good buddy Larry would give me false information. There is no way a Conservative Christian like him would hype up the failure of a democratic policy.

Smart a$$... You've always got a spoon in the pot.
The dealers will be happy when they get paid. Read the front page of yesterdays paper. I copied it here.

Originally Posted by SIXPACKGUT

Mike, Larry just got out of the hospital, he is probably on the same drugs as Rush Limbaugh, that would be the reason for the nonsensicle outburts

Been over a week since the drugs. I now prefer alcohol, thank you. Personally, I think the outbursts are a direct result of the experimental drugs from 20 something years ago.

Originally Posted by gearmesh, inc.

While the Cash for Clunkers program seems like a success right now by just looking at sales figures, a lot of dealers are financially on thin ice because the government hasn't gotten off any of the $4500 per trade in to reimburse them yet.

So, that means that most every one of these car deals have been negative cash flow for the dealers that don't have deep pockets to survive the long wait for reimbursement. A few of the smart dealers haven't been destroying the engines right away in these clunkers just in case the government doesn't come through on reimbursement. At least they will be able to sell these clunker trades for at least something vs. taking a $4500 loss on each trade.

Here's another kicker that I found out this morning......The government will be treating the $4500 per car reimbursement money to dealers as income to be taxed on. Yes, the WHOLE $4500.

Now, imagine the taxable amount if these trade-ins were just normal trade-ins without government interference. For example, a dealer gives $3000 for a trade in from a customer and puts it in their used car inventory and re-sells it for $4500. Profit wise, that is only $1500 that income taxes would be paid on.

So, in the end with the back door tax scheme buried in this "cash for clunkers" program, out of every $4500 the government says it doles out, they will be getting back $1800 worth of taxes back in their own pocket.

Leave it up to the government to put the screws to someone in the name of good intentions.

Gearmesh, Who pays for the back door tax scheme? For that matter, where is the money coming from for the clunkers program?

Originally Posted by SIXPACKGUT

hey Larry, this ones for you

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32490783/

I'd be ok with that as long as the consumers file the rebate. I'd prefer to see it as a tax credit.
The tax credit for Energy Star Appliances, Windows, and other "green" building materials has been in effect for a while.

[gearmesh, inc.]

Originally Posted by Whaler

Gearmesh, Who pays for the back door tax scheme? For that matter, where is the money coming from for the clunkers program?

In the end, I agree that the dealers are the ones that pay for the back door tax scheme up to a point. What I have a beef with is that this little tidbit of tax information only rose to the surface AFTER the program was up and running.

Another crappy aspect of the program is that us taxpayers are on the hook for the initial funding of $4500 per car in order to kick off this program. The government has rigged it to where they re-pocket about $1800 in taxes from the original $4500 for their own greed. Wouldn't it be nice if 100% of this $4500 per car "stimulus" actually went into the economy and stayed there where it is supposed to be the most effective? The source of this funding for the $4500 per car was tax revenue from US WORKING FOLKS to begin with.

The government in effect has created another downstream taxation point to tax the SAME DOLLAR that has already been pulled out of OUR salaries to begin with in order to fund this $4500 per car program.

The system is rigged to tax the same dollar again and again as it makes laps through the economy.

[wade w]

Please tell me nobody here thinks the cash for clunkers was a good idea. That was one of the dumbest things ever. It was suppose to help the american auto makers. You know, to help the american economy. But they let any auto maker do it. And most of the people are going to imports in the name of fuel economy im sure. Then the idea that getting these gross polluters off the road and replacing them with fuel efficient cars is helping is just retarted. Sure they get a little better fuel mileage, but that doesnt make up for the pollution they make to build the new cars. And the old ones have to go some were. But hey we have plenty of empty land fills right?
Yea that was a great idea.

[Shane361]

I'm glad everyone is so happy the "government" chipped in that 4500 bucks..ow wait...where does the "government" get their money... oh yeah...your welcome Biggest socialistic program to date.

[Whaler]

I wonder how bad the car business will be in the coming months now that this program is ending? They bought their future business in tha past month. Now if they can only collect.

[Pesce Nero]

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. what can you tax if no one is making money? and would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

McCain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. stop your crying, atleast their trying

[Ballaholic29414]

Originally Posted by sixpackgut

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. What can you tax if no one is making money? And would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

mccain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. Stop your crying, atleast their trying

amen!!

[Illusions]

unemployment is taxable too. just had to throw that in there...lol

[Harry]

Its been proven that throwing good money after bad money does not work. Lets not learn from our mistakes. Lets just keep saying its going to work this time!!! Atleast they are trying. Even if it was a different person in charge it would be stupid. Just so happens its Obama. Its now the democrats turn to be blamed for everyhing!

[1iron]

Originally Posted by SIXPACKGUT

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. what can you tax if no one is making money? and would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

McCain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. stop your crying, atleast their trying

Why not just send the 3 Billion to the workers? Half the "clunker" money went to Japan. It was a stupid idea.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by 1iron

Half the "clunker" money went to Japan.

Says who?

[Pesce Nero]

Originally Posted by 1iron

Why not just send the 3 Billion to the workers? Half the "clunker" money went to Japan. It was a stupid idea.

Bush tried that and it didnt do anything. what is 3 billion devided by 3 million million people that benifited from the program? a whole $100

most Jap cars are now built by American workers. Most of you consertives wanted to let the American car companies died and now you have a problem with selling certain brand cars? Please stop the flip flopping

[Mike]

I wish they would of limited the money to only American cars, or at the very least American made cars. From what I read the original idea had that in there, but it had to be deleted because of trade law violations that would be made.

Out of the top 5 cars sold under the "cash for clunker" program only 1 was made over seas.

1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius - made in Japan
5. Toyota Camry

[Mike]

Average fuel mileage of vehicles traded in was 15.8 mpg. Average fuel mileage of vehicle purchased was 25.4 mpg

Source: N.H.T.A

[Illusions]

let's not forget all the people the Focus will keep employyed trying to keep the thing running right and with operational A/C. Can't say that with the foriegn cars. Those won't break near as much.

[Darryl Buckner]

Originally Posted by SIXPACKGUT

the workers that benifited from the socailist program, car factory workers, paint suppliers, fluid (oil, trans, gear oil and grease makers and suppliers) truck drivers, dispatchers, warehouses, sales people, retailers, resteraunts, waitresses, bars and bartenders, railroad workers, audio equipment, etc

i'm sure you would have rather had all these people collecting unemployment. what can you tax if no one is making money? and would you rather pay people to sit home on their ass or come up with a program that helps alot of people

McCain would have had the biggest socialist program because everyone would have been out of a job. stop your crying, atleast their trying

So lets see GM factory workers need to get more money. 82,000 per year to drive a forklift around the plant delivering parts is not enough. No wonder to me cars are so expensive. I could understand a vehicle designer or engineer making that. But yet US auto manufacturers have to compete with foreign companies with almost slave labor. Don't get it twisted not saying McCain would be any better. Its just time to quit looking for a fast solution to the county's problems, because the problems didn't happen fast. Its going to take time and work to get this country back right again.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Darryl Buckner

So lets see GM factory workers need to get more money. 82,000 per year to drive a forklift around the plant delivering parts is not enough.

WRONG!!

This plan was not about them getting more money, it was about getting them their job back.


...and as far as pay:
As of 2006
Average UAW unskilled laborer's salary is ~28/hr
Average UAW skilled laborer's salary is ~33/hr

The CEOs of the companies had an average salary of 8 million dollars. That's ~2,000 dollars an hour if they worked a 80 hour work week.

Your sadly mistaken if you think that domestic automobile prices will drop if the UAW members made less money. The fat cat CEOs would just add a few zero's to the end of their compensation packages.

[Darryl Buckner]

Originally Posted by Mike

WRONG!!

This plan was not about them getting more money, it was about getting them their job back.


...and as far as pay:
As of 2006
Average UAW unskilled laborer's salary is ~28/hr
Average UAW skilled laborer's salary is ~33/hr

The CEOs of the companies had an average salary of 8 million dollars. That's ~2,000 dollars an hour if they worked a 80 hour work week.

Your sadly mistaken if you think that domestic automobile prices will drop if the UAW members made less money. The fat cat CEOs would just add a few zero's to the end of their compensation packages.

I agree its about them getting their job back, but 28 an hour for unskilled labor, are you kidding me. Just what a so called bankrupt company needs. Also I agree with the fat cat ceo's that is true. Freddie, Frannie, and GM should have been left to their own fate, because that is exactly where the bailout money went was the CEO's, at our expense. The key words being "our expense" democrat or Republican..

[LXtasy]

reason why foreign cars sold more is because of price of the car to the consumer. better bang for the buck. focuS wow big pos. hated kristens shitty interior, uncomfortable sea+s and a/c problems .

[cobraetti]

what about the SVT Focus?