4L60 help needed

[gearmesh, inc.]

Originally Posted by 04ctd

i got a free one out back, if someone wants it

about the size of a sheet of paper, single pass.
pretty nasty looking, but price is right...was on car when i got it.

i got one out of a F-150 at LKQ, it has threaded fittings, and mounting tabs on top & bottom, so i could do it without having to weld.

which is the OUT line on my TH400?

Your out to the cooler port is the bottom one on your 400. The return to trans is the top one. A bung in your pan is fine for taking trans fluid temp. The pan is where the front pump gets its supply from to feed to all the clutch packs. The fluid that leaves the converter goes straight to the cooler to be cooled before returning to the trans to supply the lube circuits. The lube fluid that spills out the bushings and bearings just drains back to the pan.

The temp taken in the pan will be more representative of what your clutch packs see. Loose stall converters when stalled excessively can can heat up the fluid departing the converter pretty good. The fluid in the pan will be cooler than that in this situation. On a lockup converter while cruising in lockup, there is no converter slip to make heat, so your pan temp will be a little warmer than cooler out temp in this situation.

[MonteC]

Just my opinion, take it for what its worth. I like to install trans fluid temp sensors in the cooler supply line. My reasoning is that this spot will have the hottest the fluid will get. Unless the transmission is having an internal meltdown usually caused by a plugged cooler. Placing the sensor in the cooler lines with give you an exact and "at the moment" reading, and if you study the temperature trend you will be able to know where your transmission is supposed to run and what is normal and what is abnormal.
But if the fluid in the pan is getting super heated by the lack of lube in the gear set, then the transmission should already be showing obvious signs of failure, and by the time the gauge is high enough to warrant a shut down the damage is already done.

The other place i also like is the cooler return line. Your cooler will only cool a certain amount of degrees. For example your transmission runs 230 before the cooler and 180 after thats 50 degrees. So if your before cooler temp climbs to 270 then your after cooler temp will be around 220. If you have been studying the temperature trends then you would know that something is wrong. You will also know how hot the fluid is when it enters the lube circuit. Yes the fluid will heat up one in the lube circuit, part of its job is to absorb the heat from the moving parts. But if everything is working correctly it wont heat up nearly as high as the post converter temps. And like i said before if you have a pan temp sensor, the damage to the unit will already be done before the gauge is high enough to really warn you. I would like to know if the temp is abnormal BEFORE it goes into the lube circuit so i can take the appropriate actions before critical damage is done.

If you're really feeling froggy, install two gauges. One on the supply and one on the return so you can see how well your cooler is working, and if the cooler is adequate for your application.

Gerald you know i value your opinion very highly, im not attacking or arguing with your post. I am just posting my thoughts on the subject. If you see any flaws in my logic please point them out, i will forever be a student in this field.

[1 Slow Z]

Originally Posted by soccerspike15

mines mounted on the condenser so it cools my ac faster too lol

Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[clubracergt1]

Originally Posted by 1 Slow Z

Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Looking at who posted the comment in question, I have to ask-That surprises you?

[Red99T/A]

Is there anything or anywhere in particular I should be looking for problems? Are the 4L60s prone to leaking from certain places or anything?

[soccerspike15]

Originally Posted by clubracergt1

Looking at who posted the comment in question, I have to ask-That surprises you?

[98Camarod]

Originally Posted by Red99T/A

Is there anything or anywhere in particular I should be looking for problems? Are the 4L60s prone to leaking from certain places or anything?

A burnt smelling fluid means you need to call gearmesh to get a rebuild done.

[Red99T/A]

Originally Posted by 98Camarod

A burnt smelling fluid means you need to call gearmesh to get a rebuild done.

lol Thanks Mr. Obvious, you're a life-saver.

[gearmesh, inc.]

Originally Posted by MonteC

Gerald you know i value your opinion very highly, im not attacking or arguing with your post. I am just posting my thoughts on the subject. If you see any flaws in my logic please point them out, i will forever be a student in this field.

No offense taken at all, Rob. None of us ever really stop learning something as long as we wake up with a heartbeat and see the sun every morning.

As far as the transmission industry as a whole is concerned, I don't think the engineers can even come up with an "official" place to take a temp reading. Of course, when these engineers are doing their simulated 100k mile R&D testing, they have multiple temp gauges just about everywhere. From this, they know for sure what external coolers in oem applications can do, but only at stock horsepower levels. We as hot rodders end up doing our own engineering beyond that in order to keep our machines alive at elevated horsepower levels.

Most people that take up the task of installing a temp gauge on their transmission usually only intend on one gauge with one sample point. Personally, in my own opinion, I tend to favor the pan for a sample point. Sure, you won't be able to see how much heat your converter puts in the fluid when stalled up, but the pan will be more of an average reading across all operating conditions. All electronic operated transmissions that I know of that have temp sensors have the sensor somewhere on the valve body, which is submerged down in the pan. I don't know if this is the intended strategy of theirs, or just simply a low cost mass produced way of doing things.

When you are cruising down the interstate in lockup, the cooler out line is pretty much the same temp as what is in the pan. During lockup in overdrive, the biggest heat maker is the planetary that is making the overdrive ratio. The fluid that passes through the planetary to lube it just drains back to the pan. When out of lockup during city driving and racing at the track, the biggest heat maker is the converter due to the fluid shear inside of it while the converter is unlocked and multiplying torque. This fluid gets cooled down in the cooler before returning back to the lube circuits of the trans.

For those of you that have high stall converters and bracket race, you may prefer to monitor your temps on the cooler out line. Consistency can suffer when you are already staged and stalled up for an extended period while waiting for the bonehead in the other lane to finally learn how to stage his car. The hotter the fluid gets, the thinner its viscosity, resulting in a "looser" converter when at high temperature.

As for the temp in the return cooler line, this temp will be just a tad cooler than what is in your pan. The pan gets to see the temperature rise from planetary use in overdrive. If you don't have an overdrive trans, the cooler return temp will be pretty much what your pan temp is.

The location you take a temp just boils down to personal preference. Do you want to see the hottest your fluid ever gets in the converter, or are you satisfied with an average reading in the pan? Or how efficient your cooler is? The choice is yours. Ease of installation is also a consideration, as some hot rodders don't feel comfortable with striking an arc to weld a bung in their pan.

[98Camarod]

Originally Posted by 98Camarod

A burnt smelling fluid means you need to call gearmesh to get a rebuild done.

That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge when it comes to transmissions Another thing that I do know is if the front of the converter has discoloration, the converter is done. You're not going to be able to see anything without actually taking it apart, but you may see metal built up on the magnet or fragments in your filter.

[gearmesh, inc.]

Originally Posted by 98Camarod

Another thing that I do know is if the front of the converter has discoloration, the converter is done. You're not going to be able to see anything without actually taking it apart, but you may see metal built up on the magnet or fragments in your filter.

When the front of the torque converter is blue, it is a sure sign that the lockup clutch that seats itself against the inside of the front cover has been slipping a lot. Get steel hot enough, and it turns blue. $$$$$$$$$

[MonteC]

Originally Posted by gearmesh, inc.

No offense taken at all, Rob. None of us ever really stop learning something as long as we wake up with a heartbeat and see the sun every morning.

As far as the transmission industry as a whole is concerned, I don't think the engineers can even come up with an "official" place to take a temp reading. Of course, when these engineers are doing their simulated 100k mile R&D testing, they have multiple temp gauges just about everywhere. From this, they know for sure what external coolers in oem applications can do, but only at stock horsepower levels. We as hot rodders end up doing our own engineering beyond that in order to keep our machines alive at elevated horsepower levels.

Most people that take up the task of installing a temp gauge on their transmission usually only intend on one gauge with one sample point. Personally, in my own opinion, I tend to favor the pan for a sample point. Sure, you won't be able to see how much heat your converter puts in the fluid when stalled up, but the pan will be more of an average reading across all operating conditions. All electronic operated transmissions that I know of that have temp sensors have the sensor somewhere on the valve body, which is submerged down in the pan. I don't know if this is the intended strategy of theirs, or just simply a low cost mass produced way of doing things.

When you are cruising down the interstate in lockup, the cooler out line is pretty much the same temp as what is in the pan. During lockup in overdrive, the biggest heat maker is the planetary that is making the overdrive ratio. The fluid that passes through the planetary to lube it just drains back to the pan. When out of lockup during city driving and racing at the track, the biggest heat maker is the converter due to the fluid shear inside of it while the converter is unlocked and multiplying torque. This fluid gets cooled down in the cooler before returning back to the lube circuits of the trans.

For those of you that have high stall converters and bracket race, you may prefer to monitor your temps on the cooler out line. Consistency can suffer when you are already staged and stalled up for an extended period while waiting for the bonehead in the other lane to finally learn how to stage his car. The hotter the fluid gets, the thinner its viscosity, resulting in a "looser" converter when at high temperature.

As for the temp in the return cooler line, this temp will be just a tad cooler than what is in your pan. The pan gets to see the temperature rise from planetary use in overdrive. If you don't have an overdrive trans, the cooler return temp will be pretty much what your pan temp is.

The location you take a temp just boils down to personal preference. Do you want to see the hottest your fluid ever gets in the converter, or are you satisfied with an average reading in the pan? Or how efficient your cooler is? The choice is yours. Ease of installation is also a consideration, as some hot rodders don't feel comfortable with striking an arc to weld a bung in their pan.

Duly noted.